# Miller says Cheney did it. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 30, 2005, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miller-says-cheney-did-it/324144 "2005-09-30T02:52:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miller-says-cheney-did-it/324144/21 "2005-09-30T06:59:36Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > **Stephe69** is proof that Bush’s core supporters will never be swayed by anything this White House does. So Scooter et al left Miller to rot in jail for 3 months, to avoid political embarrassment and evade the consequences of their behavior. I remember when conservative Republican blowhards would pride themselves on their manhood, a quality that’s been lacking since the chickenhawks took over. ---
**Author:** ![THespos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@THespos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/THespos)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miller-says-cheney-did-it/324144/22 "2005-09-30T13:29:54Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > **Stephe69** is proof that Bush’s core supporters will never be swayed by anything this White House does. …as well as proof that they’ll continue to stay on message. BTW, Dio, is that selective dyslexia or did you folks make up a new nickname for my favorite board dittohead while I was away from the boards for the past few days? ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miller-says-cheney-did-it/324144/23 "2005-09-30T14:17:36Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > > [@Miller](#): > > > > For a second there, I thought **Biggirl** was pitting me, and my life flashed before my eyes. > > What do you know? And when did you know it! :dubious: I suggest the Seargent Schultz defence. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miller-says-cheney-did-it/324144/24 "2005-09-30T14:24:32Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > This really sucks for the foaming Rove-haters. Yeah, because those people really tend to love Cheney. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miller-says-cheney-did-it/324144/25 "2005-09-30T14:30:04Z")
I was told by a reporter pal early this morning (about 3AM or so) that it was Libby. He was certainly one of the top likely candidates. So it doesn’t implicate Rove…at least that we know about. Let’s wait and see what the Special Prosecutor does before we get all excited. ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miller-says-cheney-did-it/324144/26 "2005-09-30T14:43:03Z")
I thought the last couple lines in the linked article are really interesting: > [@](#): > > The news media is in a less-than-ideal position in the Plame probe. > > The reporters’ sources — rather than being whistle-blowers exposing wrongdoing and facing retaliation if identified — are government officials whose motives in leaking appear to have been to undermine the credibility of a critic of the Bush administration. I don’t really know what to say about this, other than it’s rare to see such open statements about where reporters get their information, and how they see their sources. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miller-says-cheney-did-it/324144/27 "2005-09-30T15:02:26Z")
> [@Beadalin](#): > > I don’t really know what to say about this, other than it’s rare to see such open statements about where reporters get their information, and how they see their sources. True, but yes, that’s usually how it works. People on the inside tell reporters what’s happening if they’re unhappy with it. But in Washington, it’s different. Leaking is just another way to get information out there, and I often wish reporters didn’t get suckered by it so often. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miller-says-cheney-did-it/324144/28 "2005-09-30T15:27:37Z")
> [@THespos](#): > > BTW, Dio, is that selective dyslexia or did you folks make up a new nickname for my favorite board dittohead while I was away from the boards for the past few days? Typo. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miller-says-cheney-did-it/324144/29 "2005-09-30T15:44:03Z")
Is letting your chief of staff leak names of CIA agents an impeachable offence? And, if so, when will the Congress impeach Dick Cheney? That’s more important than a criminal prosecution, because if convicted, he can just be pardoned by the POTUS, but he can’t be un-impeached so easily. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miller-says-cheney-did-it/324144/30 "2005-09-30T15:53:40Z")
Let’s be honest. This was obviously orchestrated by Rove and/or Cheney, using expendable subordinates for the work. None of the peons would have had access to the information themselves, and would not have taken on a smear job of this magnitude without clearance from the boss. This is the Rove White House, remember? They are famous for the amount of control they have over what goes on in the Administration. There is not a chance in H-E-L-L that this was an independent action by Scooter. This is how the game is played. Everyone in the media, along with other people who don’t live in fantasy land, knows what happened. But this is how the game works, and they all have their parts to play. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miller-says-cheney-did-it/324144/31 "2005-09-30T15:56:40Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Is letting your chief of staff leak names of CIA agents an impeachable offence? I get the sense that Congress decides what’s impeachable and what isn’t, and there isn’t much more of a rubric than that. The chances of a Republican Pres or VP being impeached by a Republican-controlled Congress are pretty damn remote. As far as criminal stuff, I feel Fitzgerald may be focusing on the coverup of the leak more than the actual leak at this point, but we’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miller-says-cheney-did-it/324144/32 "2005-09-30T16:25:03Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I get the sense that Congress decides what’s impeachable and what isn’t, and there isn’t much more of a rubric than that. > > The chances of a Republican Pres or VP being impeached by a Republican-controlled Congress are pretty damn remote. As far as criminal stuff, I feel Fitzgerald may be focusing on the coverup of the leak more than the actual leak at this point, but we’ll see. Now that Miller has given up Libby (or Libby’s been named the designated villain by Rove) there’s no reason Fitzgerald has to “just concentrate on the coverup.” Now he can go to Libby and ask him “Who gave you the info about Plame?” (It’s the Plame game … they’re playing the Plame game!") and if Libby doesn’t come forth, HE winds up in the slammer instead of Miller. And I don’t think a Presidential pardon will get you out of jail on a contempt citation. LIbby could wind up in the slammer for a VERY long time. It’s going to be interesting to see how this works out. Someone in the intel works … could it be Miller’s boyfriend Phil Bolton? … is the likely source of the leak. What fun! ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miller-says-cheney-did-it/324144/33 "2005-09-30T16:57:06Z")
Interesting point in the Yahoo News coverage of Miller’s testimony. They quoted Libby’s attorney, who said: > [@](#): > > But Libby’s lawyer said Friday he and his client had released Miller long ago to testify, and were surprised when Miller’s lawyers again asked for a release in the last few weeks. > > “We had signed a waiver more than a year ago,” Attorney Joseph Tate said. “We didn’t think this had anything to do with Scooter. I was under the impression from talking to (Miller attorney Floyd) Abrams that she was protecting a number of other sources.” If Miller had had Libby’s waiver to speak freely, why did she spend 85 days in jail to protect a source who clearly did not feel he needed protecting? I don’t think Libby did it all of a sudden. I think they decided Fitzgerald had too much of a case against whoever DID do it (Rove, prolly) and Libby was the designated sword-faller-onner. And that what really happened is that Bolton or some other visitor explained to Miller that she could get out of jail with everyone’s approval and blessing … including Libby’s … if she’d just point the finger at him (and away from the actual source). It certainly fits the circumstances a lot better than what’s being offered up. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miller-says-cheney-did-it/324144/34 "2005-09-30T17:02:40Z")
Also, if Libby had no objection to being outed, the why didn’t he out himself instead of letting Miller rot in jail for him? My bullshit detector is in the red right now. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miller-says-cheney-did-it/324144/35 "2005-09-30T17:55:34Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > If Miller had had Libby’s waiver to speak freely, why did she spend 85 days in jail to protect a source who clearly did not feel he needed protecting? Mostly because she felt the waiver was not freely given. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miller-says-cheney-did-it/324144/36 "2005-09-30T18:04:33Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Yeah, because those people really tend to love Cheney. Yeah. He’s a “people person.” ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miller-says-cheney-did-it/324144/37 "2005-09-30T18:05:40Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Mostly because she felt the waiver was not freely given. I think there’s reasonable doubt about that, if you wish to comment in my thread in GD. Or here, I guess. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miller-says-cheney-did-it/324144/38 "2005-09-30T20:52:58Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > I think there’s reasonable doubt about that, if you wish to comment in my thread in GD. Or here, I guess. 😉 Suppose you could craft a link to that thread? [On second thought, never mind.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=337631) ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miller-says-cheney-did-it/324144/39 "2005-09-30T20:58:00Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > I think there’s reasonable doubt about that, if you wish to comment in my thread in GD. Or here, I guess. 😉 Suppose you could craft a link to that thread? [On second thought, never mind.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=337631) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miller-says-cheney-did-it/324144/40 "2005-09-30T21:21:41Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > I think there’s reasonable doubt about that, if you wish to comment in my thread in GD. Or here, I guess. 😉 I don’t think anything you linked to demonstrates reasonable doubt. She may be wrong or lying, but I don’t see how that column proves it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miller-says-cheney-did-it/324144.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miller-says-cheney-did-it/324144.md?page=3)