# Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke harasses, threatens Packer fan. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 20, 2017, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milwaukee-county-sheriff-david-clarke-harasses-threatens-packer-fan/777636 "2017-01-20T16:31:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milwaukee-county-sheriff-david-clarke-harasses-threatens-packer-fan/777636/61 "2017-01-21T00:18:23Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > As we have all been lectured before, freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom from consequences. You’re okay with consequences including government officials using their powers and resources to intimidate people who express speech they don’t like, if that’s indeed what happened? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milwaukee-county-sheriff-david-clarke-harasses-threatens-packer-fan/777636/62 "2017-01-21T00:46:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It depends on what happened. If Black elided from his account important facts that change the meaning of the confrontation on the plane, I suppose the sheriff’s office may have thought that using social media to send a response was tit-for-tat. > > You may believe that the citizen is free to trash talk on social media but the sheriff is not. I’m not sure there’s any legal relevance to that view. The Sheriff is \*not \*free to trash talk on the **official Sheriff’s facebook page** to a citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milwaukee-county-sheriff-david-clarke-harasses-threatens-packer-fan/777636/63 "2017-01-21T00:48:36Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > It’s not realistic to suggest Black wouldn’t have been arrested if he had uttered credible threats. It’s not reasonable to suggest the officers were perhaps unable to gather witness statements. I have to agree. If there were threats to a police officer on a plane, isn’t that officer duty-bound to make an arrest? Of inform the Feds and have _them_ make an arrest? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milwaukee-county-sheriff-david-clarke-harasses-threatens-packer-fan/777636/64 "2017-01-21T00:56:36Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > The Sheriff is \*not \*free to trash talk on the **official Sheriff’s facebook page** to a citizen. You forget who’s in charge now. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milwaukee-county-sheriff-david-clarke-harasses-threatens-packer-fan/777636/65 "2017-01-21T01:01:33Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > The Sheriff is \*not \*free to trash talk on the **official Sheriff’s facebook page** to a citizen. Why wouldn’t he be free to do so? Sure it’s an awful idea but what is stopping him? He’s an elected official and at some point if he wants to keep the job he will have to answer to the voters. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milwaukee-county-sheriff-david-clarke-harasses-threatens-packer-fan/777636/66 "2017-01-21T01:07:39Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Threatening the sheriff would be considered assault correct? No. At common law, assault requires a reasonable apprehension of imminent injury. If Black said to Clarke while the plane was still in the air, “When we get to the airport, I am going to take the gun I have in checked baggage and shoot you through the head,” that’s not imminent. It’s a threat, but it’s not an assault. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milwaukee-county-sheriff-david-clarke-harasses-threatens-packer-fan/777636/67 "2017-01-21T01:08:47Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > The Sheriff is \*not \*free to trash talk on the **official Sheriff’s facebook page** to a citizen. Why not, specifically? ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milwaukee-county-sheriff-david-clarke-harasses-threatens-packer-fan/777636/68 "2017-01-21T01:09:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What difference does it make whether I think it’s “appropriate?” You know, you’re absolutely right about that, not a damn bit of difference. On the other hand, the voters of that county, and possibly some regulatory body or other, might have an opinion about what’s appropriate, one which would in fact matter. > [@Bricker](#): > > I am, however, interested in the code of conduct we all agree to and are bound by – not “appropriate” but “legal.” I think there are codes of conduct for law enforcement officers that don’t quite meet the “legal” test but which those officers find to be binding nonetheless. The penalty for violating them may not be jail, but could be loss of position. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milwaukee-county-sheriff-david-clarke-harasses-threatens-packer-fan/777636/69 "2017-01-21T01:10:49Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > The thing is, none of your caveats and hypotheticals are reasonable. It’s not realistic to suggest Black wouldn’t have been arrested if he had uttered credible threats. It’s not reasonable to suggest the officers were perhaps unable to gather witness statements. It defies all my experience that an elected Sheriff wouldn’t have released some official statement clarifying the events if he had a leg to stand on. > > What we do know is that they had some sort of confrontation on the plane, the Sheriff called in a big backup squad but no arrest was made. Then the Sheriff takes to the official county facebook page with childish taunts. > > Without further evidence, it seems clear Clarke abused his position even if it doesn’t meet some criminal standard. It seems clear to you. I regard it as possible, but beyond that I’ll wait for additional details. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milwaukee-county-sheriff-david-clarke-harasses-threatens-packer-fan/777636/70 "2017-01-21T01:16:05Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > You know, you’re absolutely right about that, not a damn bit of difference. > > On the other hand, the voters of that county, and possibly some regulatory body or other, might have an opinion about what’s appropriate, one which would in fact matter. Of course. An elected sheriff acting like this is courting political fallout, no question about it. > [@](#): > > I think there are codes of conduct for law enforcement officers that don’t quite meet the “legal” test but which those officers find to be binding nonetheless. The penalty for violating them may not be jail, but could be loss of position. I’m not sure what those are. There are probably department guidelines, but typically such guidelines are imposed by the sheriff, who is typically a constitutional officer. In other words, this is the kind of conduct for which the sheriff might fire a deputy, but it’s not clear to me that the sheriff himself would be bound thereby. But I could be wrong. Can you point me to the guidelines or codes you mean? Can you direct me to them? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milwaukee-county-sheriff-david-clarke-harasses-threatens-packer-fan/777636/71 "2017-01-21T01:17:08Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > I have to agree. If there were threats to a police officer on a plane, isn’t that officer duty-bound to make an arrest? Of inform the Feds and have _them_ make an arrest? No. No officer is “duty bound” to make an arrest merely because he witnesses a crime. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milwaukee-county-sheriff-david-clarke-harasses-threatens-packer-fan/777636/72 "2017-01-21T01:17:28Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > so… If you, for example, post something that says the government of the day is promoting a bad policy, and the next day the police come to your door and beat the living crap out of you… > > Well, that’s just tough shit for you, because … hey, consequences. > That is what you’re saying. No. it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milwaukee-county-sheriff-david-clarke-harasses-threatens-packer-fan/777636/73 "2017-01-21T01:20:33Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You’re okay with consequences including government officials using their powers and resources to intimidate people who express speech they don’t like, if that’s indeed what happened? Obviously not. Nor am I ok with mobs of people ruining others’ livelihoods due to secret tapes. And what do those hordes of illiberal loons and their supporters say? “Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.” Well, consequences can be escalated. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milwaukee-county-sheriff-david-clarke-harasses-threatens-packer-fan/777636/74 "2017-01-21T02:08:55Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Obviously not. Nor am I ok with mobs of people ruining others’ livelihoods due to secret tapes. And what do those hordes of illiberal loons and their supporters say? “Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.” Well, consequences can be escalated. Okay, I must have missed something in the discussion (since I don’t know what you’re talking about). Apologies if I misinterpreted your post. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milwaukee-county-sheriff-david-clarke-harasses-threatens-packer-fan/777636/75 "2017-01-21T02:12:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why not, specifically? It’s abuse of authority. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milwaukee-county-sheriff-david-clarke-harasses-threatens-packer-fan/777636/76 "2017-01-21T03:06:51Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > It’s abuse of authority. Here’s the thing that many posters don’t seem to understand. YOU, individually or collectively, don’t get to decide for the rest of us what is abusive, illegal, unreasonable, or improper. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milwaukee-county-sheriff-david-clarke-harasses-threatens-packer-fan/777636/77 "2017-01-21T03:15:30Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Here’s the thing that many posters don’t seem to understand. YOU, individually or collectively, don’t get to decide for the rest of us what is abusive, illegal, unreasonable, or improper. Funny, I thought there was free speech. But I guess with the new administration in power, that is no longer the case. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milwaukee-county-sheriff-david-clarke-harasses-threatens-packer-fan/777636/78 "2017-01-21T03:28:13Z")
There’s no bigger Cornball in America than Sheriff Clarke. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milwaukee-county-sheriff-david-clarke-harasses-threatens-packer-fan/777636/79 "2017-01-21T04:02:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Fallacy of the Excluded Middle. No, it isn’t. You’ve been asked your personal opinion. You refuse to give one, instead giving the legal opinion. If your personal opinion differs from the legal opinion, you have no reason not to say so. Stop treating us like we’re stupid. You don’t have to explicitly state something. It would help your argument tremendously to appear on the same page morally with everyone else. There just is no reason for you to be cagey about this unless you think we won’t like what you have to say. This is why I reject your claims at integrity. If had integrity, you wouldn’t need to do all this verbal jujitsu. You wouldn’t need to bring up the law when no one else brought it up. You do that so you can take conversation away from where you would lose. This guy pulled a Trump. He’s deliberately trolling this guy. That’s not his job, and it is wrong. It doesn’t matter one bit what happened. You think otherwise, but won’t say so. And, if you can’t have this basic level of integrity, how can we trust you not to be a lying sack of shit the rest of the time? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milwaukee-county-sheriff-david-clarke-harasses-threatens-packer-fan/777636/80 "2017-01-21T04:11:03Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > It doesn’t matter one bit what happened. This seems a strange thing to say. Don’t you want to get both sides of a story before you condemn one side? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milwaukee-county-sheriff-david-clarke-harasses-threatens-packer-fan/777636.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milwaukee-county-sheriff-david-clarke-harasses-threatens-packer-fan/777636.md?page=5)