# Mincemeat pie -- WHAT kind of meat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 28, 2002, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mincemeat-pie-what-kind-of-meat/139286 "2002-11-28T03:25:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mincemeat-pie-what-kind-of-meat/139286/1 "2002-11-28T03:25:53Z")
Okay, please don’t blame me for this question. This comes from the twisted mind of my teenager, Kid CaptMurdock, who swears that on the Discovery Channel, he saw a show about mincemeat pie, and swears that the main ingredient of that is _mouse_. :eek: Kids. What are gonna do? :smack: Please refute this canard ASAP. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mincemeat-pie-what-kind-of-meat/139286/2 "2002-11-28T03:31:03Z")
[Here](http://www.epicurious.com/run/recipe/view?id=104437) is a recipe for mincemeat. It contains no meat at all, just chopped up apples, raisins and such. Haj ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mincemeat-pie-what-kind-of-meat/139286/3 "2002-11-28T03:32:06Z")
Sorry, I posted way too fast. Mincemeat also contains BEEF suet. Haj ---
**Author:** ![Lyllyan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b2d939/32.png) [@Lyllyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lyllyan)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mincemeat-pie-what-kind-of-meat/139286/4 "2002-11-28T03:32:31Z")
Beef suet and/or pork. I suppose if these ingredients are not readily available, a couple of mice would do. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mincemeat-pie-what-kind-of-meat/139286/5 "2002-11-28T03:39:27Z")
Meat is meat. I don’t care, I like pie. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mincemeat-pie-what-kind-of-meat/139286/6 "2002-11-28T03:44:34Z")
ONe of my cookbooks suggest that mincemeats were originally a method to preserve meat which didn’t involve the usual smoking or drying. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mincemeat-pie-what-kind-of-meat/139286/7 "2002-11-28T03:46:01Z")
No, no, no, no, no. Sheesh. It’s _rat_. Actually, there are two traditional ways to go at it. The first version, the one I’m most familiar with, is with any kind of cooked beef, usually pot roast-type meat or stewing beef, cooked and chopped up very fine, and then mixed with sugar and raisins and apples and candied orange peel and stuff like that, and spices. Then after it’s cooled off, you fill up a piecrust with it. What you end up with tastes more like a raisin pie than anything else–the meat isn’t that obvious. There are meat versions out there that use pork, hamburger, whatever kind of meat you want. For the second version, which seems to be the traditional British version, you eliminate the actual meat and just use pure beef suet (that’s the white solid fat you put in bird feeders). Add apples, raisins, sugar, spices, etc. I have never had this version so I don’t know what it tastes like, but since it’s equal parts suet and sugar, it’s probably extremely rich and tastes like apples and raisins and spices. Beef suet is a very neutral-flavored fat. And since the thing is sometimes known simply as “mince” or “mince pie”, I’m guessing that Kid CaptMurdock misheard “mince” as “mouse”. [http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/9522/mincemeat.html](http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/9522/mincemeat.html) [http://www.greenchronicle.com/regional\_recipes/east\_anglian\_mincemeat.htm](http://www.greenchronicle.com/regional_recipes/east_anglian_mincemeat.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Motog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@Motog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motog)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mincemeat-pie-what-kind-of-meat/139286/8 "2002-11-28T04:24:07Z")
I think your kid might have misheard “mice” for “mince”. Australians are the largest per capita consumers of meatpies in the world. Meatpies are to us what hotdogs are to Americans or chips to the Brits (though we eat those too). The world’s largest meatpie factory is the [Four’n Twenty](http://www.simplot.com.au/brands_4n20.asp?Nav=5) factory here in Melbourne, turning out more than 50,000 pies per hour. I think they would need alot of mice to keep up with demand. I can’t recall seeing the world’s biggest mouse farm around here anywhere. A regular commercially made meat pie contains minced beef, herbs, stock, etc all wrapped in puff pastry. There are also chicken and other types of pies. Mouse parts would constitute a major food standards breach with pretty heavy penalties attached. **Hajario** We’d call that a _mince_ pie ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mincemeat-pie-what-kind-of-meat/139286/9 "2002-11-28T06:07:10Z")
I have seen an old recipe for mincemeat made from _moose_ meat, not mouse meat. It was supposed to be a traditional New England recipe. I’ve had moose in the front yard, but I’ve never had moose in mincemeat. When I whipped up a batch last week, I used beef. ---
**Author:** ![Kegg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Kegg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kegg)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mincemeat-pie-what-kind-of-meat/139286/10 "2002-11-28T11:21:14Z")
I have a recipe that calls for veal neck (boiled for some time) and potatoes. It said that the resulte amount would depend on the size of the neck and how thin you peel the potatoes. ---
**Author:** ![starman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@starman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/starman)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mincemeat-pie-what-kind-of-meat/139286/11 "2002-11-28T11:25:46Z")
I believe that here in Australia ‘meat’ pies must contain a minimum of 30% meat. God knows what the rest is. -Oli ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mincemeat-pie-what-kind-of-meat/139286/12 "2002-11-28T11:34:27Z")
If you’re talking about the mince pies which become available at Christmas, they are - indeed - made from fruit mince, and not meat (although for come strange reason, the labelling on some brands of them does read mincemeat; if they were actually MEAT it would say mincED meat). The secret to making good meat-based mince pies (what you called ground beef in the US, we call mince here), is slow cooking of the meat, and a sprinkle of nutmeg (I know that sounds weird, but trust me), and using mince which has a little bit of fat in it )it’s the one time you don’t want to use extra-premium mince). I make kick-ass normal, chicken, and steak and kidney pies - and I make a pretty mean sherpherd’s pie too. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mincemeat-pie-what-kind-of-meat/139286/13 "2002-11-28T12:03:14Z")
Theoretically, you could even have vegetarian “mincemeat” because in English the word _meat_ originally meant simply ‘food’ without necessarily implying ‘pieces of dead animals’. As in _sweetmeat_, which is another word for candy or confection, no animals involved. And the old phrase _meat and drink_ which just meant ‘food and drink’. _Meat_ came from Old English _mete_ ‘item of food’, from Proto-Germanic \*_matiz_, from Proto-Indo-European \*_mad-_ ‘moist, wet’ (also referring to various qualities of food — presumably boiled food: soup, stew, porridge, and the like). In English, what was originally ‘food’ in general became semantically specialized to mean only animal flesh. In Semitic, there was a similar development in a root that originally meant ‘food’ and eventually came to mean ‘meat’ (i.e., animal flesh) and thence even ‘slaughter’. The Semitic root [LHM](http://www.bartleby.com/61/roots/S178.html). Orginally, this root LHM meant ‘to eat’ or ‘food’. In Hebrew, it became specialized to mean ‘bread’ (_leHem_). In Arabic, it became specialized to mean ‘meat’ (_laHm_). From the sense of ‘meat’ developed the sense of ‘slaughter’: the Arabic word for ‘battle’ is _malHamah_ and the Hebrew word for battle is _milHamah_ — where men make “mincemeat” of each other. —Jomo “vegetarian peace activist” Mojo ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Doris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@Sir\_Doris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Doris)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mincemeat-pie-what-kind-of-meat/139286/14 "2002-11-28T12:18:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jomo Mojo \* > \*\*Theoretically, you could even have vegetarian “mincemeat” > \*\* Indeed we do - most shop-bought mince-pies and mincemeat are now veggie friendly, as are Christmas puddings. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mincemeat-pie-what-kind-of-meat/139286/15 "2002-11-28T12:20:58Z")
Most of the commercial mincemeat sold in the UK, for making the traditional Christmas pies, now contains “vegetarian suet” ( made from vegetable oil ) and is marked " suitable for vegetarians ". A good tip when buying off the shelf mincemeat is to add a little brandy , rum or whisky to improve the taste. ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mincemeat-pie-what-kind-of-meat/139286/16 "2002-11-28T12:27:53Z")
Will let one of the other Aussies tell the punters what “sweetmeats” or “sweetbreads” (depending on your state of origin) refer to here. It sure isn’t lollies. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mincemeat-pie-what-kind-of-meat/139286/17 "2002-11-28T16:40:02Z")
Hmm mincemeat tarts. Spicy as heck (in a good way), loads of raisins or currants and apples. But no animal-derived products inside. ---
**Author:** ![Motog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@Motog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motog)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mincemeat-pie-what-kind-of-meat/139286/18 "2002-11-28T22:28:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by reprise \* > \*\*Will let one of the other Aussies tell the punters what “sweetmeats” or “sweetbreads” (depending on your state of origin) refer to here. It sure isn’t lollies. \*\* **Reprise** I think you may be confused. Sweetmeats mean the same here in Australia as elsewhere: > [@](#): > > sweetmeat > // noun 1. a sweet delicacy, prepared with sugar, honey, or the like, as preserves, sweets, or (formerly) cakes or pastry. 2. (usually plural) any sweet delicacy of the confectionery kind, as crystallised fruit, sugar-covered nuts, sweets, bonbons, etc. Sweetbreads are completely different things: > [@](#): > > sweetbread > // noun 1. the pancreas (stomach sweetbread) of an animal, especially a calf or a lamb, used for food. 2. the thymus gland (neck sweetbreador throat sweetbread), used for food Both definitions from the [Macquarie Dictionary](http://www.macquariedictionary.com.au)