# Mind altering substances. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 26, 2008, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mind-altering-substances/442838 "2008-03-26T22:00:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2008, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mind-altering-substances/442838/21 "2008-03-28T11:11:38Z")
[QUOTE=Moe] _cite?_ BTW, here’s [Cecil](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_223b.html) on the subject. [/QUOTE] And Cecil said: > [@](#): > > One last word of warning: if you ever decide to cop a whiff from professional anesthesiology equipment, don’t strap on the mask, lest you lose consciousness and kill yourself. This doesn’t apply just to ‘professional’ equipment, it applies to any rig where a free-flowing nitrous source would continue feeding nitrous to the facial area after the subject lost consciousness. ---
**Author:** ![Moe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moe/32/2972_2.png) [@Moe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moe)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2008, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mind-altering-substances/442838/22 "2008-03-28T13:18:54Z")
[QUOTE=Cosmic Relief] And Cecil said: This doesn’t apply just to ‘professional’ equipment, it applies to any rig where a free-flowing nitrous source would continue feeding nitrous to the facial area after the subject lost consciousness. [/QUOTE] Which doesn’t apply to virtually any instance of recreational use I’ve ever heard about, and which is actually impossible using the cartridges I mentioned in my example. Sorry, but I’ve heard the old “NO2 is bad because it starves your brain of oxygen” meme perhaps a thousand times but it’s just not true any more than saying water starves your brain of oxygen because you can drown in it. It does, however, starve your wallet of money, since it is quite addicting, and short lasting. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mind-altering-substances/442838/23 "2008-03-28T21:34:56Z")
[QUOTE=Moe] Which doesn’t apply to virtually any instance of recreational use I’ve ever heard about, [/quote] Oh. I didn’t realize you’d never heard of it. That changes everything. > [@](#): > > Sorry, but I’ve heard the old “NO2 is bad because it starves your brain of oxygen” meme perhaps a thousand times but it’s just not true any more than saying water starves your brain of oxygen because you can drown in it. It depends on the context. Water _does_ starve your brain of water, and this is an important point if someone is going to put a piece of cloth on someone’s face and pour water on it. Of course this is obvious because we all know you can drown in water, but people don’t know you can ‘drown’ in NO2. And it’s really naive to think that nobody is going to try using it in ways that you may not have thought of. ---
**Author:** ![telecommunications](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ed8c4c/32.png) [@telecommunications](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/telecommunications)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2008, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mind-altering-substances/442838/24 "2008-03-28T21:50:05Z")
just for the purpose of furthering discussion, what is your opinion of this paragraph regarding drugs from a selfhelp book (Your Innate Power, by Olive Brown)? > [@](#): > > Most alarming is the popular enthusiasm for the new ‘miracle’ drugs which are believed to increase the efficiency and creativeness of normal, intelligent people! These chemical ‘mind-changers’ are part of a programme seeking new techniques for the control of the human brain and behaviour. They are intended to stimulate sensory perception far beyond normal and to give heightened insight into the self, yet it is recognized that the emotions and opinions of the subject are coloured by his surroundings and by the personality and suggestions of the person who administers the drug. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2008, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mind-altering-substances/442838/25 "2008-03-28T23:14:31Z")
[QUOTE=telecommunications] just for the purpose of furthering discussion, what is your opinion of this paragraph regarding drugs from a selfhelp book (Your Innate Power, by Olive Brown)? [/QUOTE] Impossible to say without their naming exactly what substance they’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![telecommunications](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ed8c4c/32.png) [@telecommunications](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/telecommunications)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2008, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mind-altering-substances/442838/26 "2008-03-29T01:33:59Z")
[QUOTE=Cosmic Relief] Impossible to say without their naming exactly what substance they’re talking about. [/QUOTE] maybe a smart-drug like Piracetam but personally, i refuse to even contemplate such drugs because i am disgusted by hearsay that college students abuse caffeine, adhd drugs, or (supposedly much safer) dietary supplements for the purpose of doing well in school. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2008, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mind-altering-substances/442838/27 "2008-03-29T13:14:23Z")
[QUOTE=telecommunications] maybe a smart-drug like Piracetam but personally, i refuse to even contemplate such drugs because i am disgusted by hearsay that college students abuse caffeine, adhd drugs, or (supposedly much safer) dietary supplements for the purpose of doing well in school. [/QUOTE] I can’t pretend to fathom that point of view. Why not do better in school? Why can’t adults be allowed the freedom to ingest a (relatively) harmless substance like Piracetam for whatever purpose they choose? (And if you weren’t aware, caffeine is entirely legal and is in fact a constituent of coffee… what’s your grudge with caffeine?) ---
**Author:** ![Moe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moe/32/2972_2.png) [@Moe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moe)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2008, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mind-altering-substances/442838/28 "2008-03-29T16:31:01Z")
[QUOTE=Cosmic Relief] Oh. I didn’t realize you’d never heard of it. That changes everything. [/quote] You said: > [@](#): > > Not entirely harmless though… it starves your brain of oxygen, and I understand people have asphyxiated themselves from using it incorrectly. And I simply asked for a cite. > [@](#): > > It depends on the context. Water _does_ starve your brain of water, and this is an important point if someone is going to put a piece of cloth on someone’s face and pour water on it. Of course this is obvious because we all know you can drown in water, but people don’t know you can ‘drown’ in NO2. And it’s really naive to think that nobody is going to try using it in ways that you may not have thought of. Do you have any statistical evidence on how many recreational NO2 users have “drowned” from it? Yes, it is certainly possible that someone can get hold of a tank and mask and breathe only NO2 until they pass out and asphixiate exactly as Cecil described. This would not apply to my post about it in response to the OP which refers only to cartridges, and would be pretty much impossible. And even as far as getting a tank goes, it actually used to be a lot easier (I had one at one point) some years ago, before speed shops started including sulfer in it. I’d imagine most dental students/dentists who have access to medical grade NO2 would be educated enough to know that they also need oxygen if their gonna mess with it. But c’mon, you’re really going to say that “water starves your brain of oxygen” because people can drown in it. Lack of oxygen starves your brain of oxygen, not water. NO2 does not actively starve your brain of oxygen. ---
**Author:** ![telecommunications](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ed8c4c/32.png) [@telecommunications](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/telecommunications)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2008, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mind-altering-substances/442838/29 "2008-03-29T18:37:24Z")
[QUOTE=Cosmic Relief] I can’t pretend to fathom that point of view. Why not do better in school? Why can’t adults be allowed the freedom to ingest a (relatively) harmless substance like Piracetam for whatever purpose they choose? (And if you weren’t aware, caffeine is entirely legal and is in fact a constituent of coffee… what’s your grudge with caffeine?) [/QUOTE] i think people have lost sight of what purpose a good education serves when they will take piracetam to get good grades. and i don’t like caffeine because i don’t think any task that requires a person to have more energy is worth doing, viagra being the exception. ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2008, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mind-altering-substances/442838/30 "2008-03-29T18:52:09Z")
[QUOTE=Moe] Sorry, but I’ve heard the old “NO2 is bad because it starves your brain of oxygen” meme perhaps a thousand times but it’s just not true any more than saying water starves your brain of oxygen because you can drown in it. [/QUOTE] Yep - I think that’s one of those cannards that people create or promote so that they can discourage the use, when they can’t think of a better reason. Holding your breath deprives your brain of oxygen. So does taking one hit of Helium, since while you’re doing it, you’re not taking in any more air, so for a few moments, your O2 volume in your body goes down a fraction. But there aren’t a lot of people out there decrying the use of Helium for recreation’s sake. Hell, the underwater scientists who live under pressure for days and weeks at a time breathe it as part of their artificial atmosphere. ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2008, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mind-altering-substances/442838/31 "2008-03-29T19:27:45Z")
This article describes a guy who did in fact asphyxiate himself with NO2: Autopsy finds man suffocated after taking laughing gas, The News & Observer November 13, 1992. I found this on [www.newsobserver.com](http://www.newsobserver.com) in the archives, but the link seems to require a subscription, so I haven’t posted it. I was actually searching for a more recent case, but that one didn’t come up. In any case, the article is there as a cite in case anyone is interested. The deceased was a doctoral student in chemistry and a medical technologist, so should have been smart enough to know what he was doing, although they say there was no indication it was a suicide. The article also states "Recreational use can lead to asphyxiation, and chronic use produces spinal cord and bone marrow damage. " My vote is “no” on the harmless. ---
**Author:** ![brujaja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@brujaja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brujaja)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2008, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mind-altering-substances/442838/32 "2008-03-29T20:38:06Z")
[QUOTE=telecommunications] i think people have lost sight of what purpose a good education serves when they will take piracetam to get good grades. and i don’t like caffeine because i don’t think any task that requires a person to have more energy is worth doing, viagra being the exception. [/QUOTE] Well, as I understand it, one of the first uses of speed was in the military during WWII, so that pilots could make long trans-oceanic bombing runs. I’m not sure if this supports or conflicts with your statement, though. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mind-altering-substances/442838.md?page=1)