# Minesweeper addiction **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 1, 2001, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minesweeper-addiction/90884 "2001-11-01T09:13:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minesweeper-addiction/90884/1 "2001-11-01T09:13:39Z")
I’ve gotten over it now. No really, I’m okay. But for a while I was, well, bored and I played minesweeper _way_ too much. My best times are as follows: Beginner: 9 seconds Intermediate: 43 seconds Advanced: 126 seconds How about you? (I did manage to get a life since then, BTW)🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minesweeper-addiction/90884/2 "2001-11-01T09:22:30Z")
beginer 3secs med 37secs never liked to play advanced. It didn’t play fair on that level. ---
**Author:** ![Daikona](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8baadc/32.png) [@Daikona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daikona)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minesweeper-addiction/90884/3 "2001-11-01T14:55:11Z")
Beginner: 6 sec Intermediate: 37 sec Expert: 114 sec ---
**Author:** ![babydrln](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b38774/32.png) [@babydrln](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/babydrln)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minesweeper-addiction/90884/4 "2001-11-02T00:24:23Z")
I quit playing Minesweeper because it kept making me guess. No matter how good your powers of deduction are, the danged thing will come down to “eenie meenie miney moe” at the end! ARGH! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Googler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7993a0/32.png) [@Googler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Googler)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minesweeper-addiction/90884/5 "2001-11-02T01:11:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by babydrln \* > \*\*I quit playing Minesweeper because it kept making me guess. No matter how good your powers of deduction are, the danged thing will come down to “eenie meenie miney moe” at the end! ARGH! :mad: \*\* Yes.Thats because its NP-complete! Ian Stewart gave a wonderful lecture at the Clay Institute sometime ago on this. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minesweeper-addiction/90884/6 "2001-11-02T04:21:34Z")
[sidebar] NP-complete? logic term? inquiring minds want to know [/sidebar] ---
**Author:** ![Googler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7993a0/32.png) [@Googler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Googler)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minesweeper-addiction/90884/7 "2001-11-02T05:18:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Northern Piper \* > \*\*[sidebar] NP-complete? logic term? inquiring minds want to know [/sidebar] \*\* > **[School of Mathematics](https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/schools/mathematics/index.aspx)** > > The School of Mathematics is internationally renowned for its world-leading research and research-led teaching. We are committed to providing a first-rate education in a friendly and supportive environment. [http://www.claymath.org/prizeproblems/milliondollarminesweeper.htm](http://www.claymath.org/prizeproblems/milliondollarminesweeper.htm) I am not even going to try explaining NP-complete here.I never do it well.☹ The above links should help. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minesweeper-addiction/90884/8 "2001-11-02T05:29:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Northern Piper \* > \*\*[sidebar] NP-complete? logic term? inquiring minds want to know [/sidebar] \*\* It ain’t easy to understand, but basically, it’s one of the hardest problems whose solutions can be verified in a reasonable time (i.e., if someone tells you where the mines are, you can determine whether they’re a liar or not pretty quickly). Read the links if you want more. Beginner: 2 seconds. Intermediate: 23 seconds. Advanced: 84 seconds. I had a lot of time first year. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minesweeper-addiction/90884/9 "2001-11-02T05:30:43Z")
oh, sure, **Googler,** tease me like that, then fob me off with links. I’ll talk to my-brother-the-logic-prof about it. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minesweeper-addiction/90884/10 "2001-11-02T05:37:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Northern Piper \* > \*\*oh, sure, **Googler,** tease me like that, then fob me off with links. > > I’ll talk to my-brother-the-logic-prof about it. \*\* Check out [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=82867) thread. If you have a question, post there and I’ll try to answer it. ---
**Author:** ![Googler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7993a0/32.png) [@Googler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Googler)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minesweeper-addiction/90884/11 "2001-11-02T06:03:22Z")
> [@](#): > > i.e., if someone tells you where the mines are, you can determine whether they’re a liar or not pretty quickly Another very nice example (and damn useful one which is applied in cryptography or even in Monty Hall problem)is the factorization of prime numbers.Suppose I multiply 2 really big(say 200 digits) prime numbers a and b and find their product c. I tell you the value of c and I ask you to factorize c.i,e. tell you to find the value of a and b. It is not easy for you to do that.(though it might look easy) But on the other hand if I also tell you the value of a and b, you can easily check whether they are the factors. This is the basis of P=NP? theory. It makes the unusual claim that ,“if it is easy to check for a solution to a problem ,then it is easy to solve it!” ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2001, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minesweeper-addiction/90884/12 "2001-11-03T03:45:31Z")
I’ve seen these claims of times that are unbelievable to me, so I’m not doubting them so much as trying to figure how they are possible. Claims above of 2 or 3 seconds, I cannot make five or six wild clicks in that time. Do you play that way and just wait until it happens to win the game? My fastest time ever on the “expert” has been 216. Now I don’t ever expect to set the world record, national record, state record, but when I see people claiming 85 (here) and sixty some on a minesweeper site I just do not understand. Like **babydrln** says a lot of it is deduction but it boils down to making a guess. In order to get fast times is it all a guess? ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2001, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minesweeper-addiction/90884/13 "2001-11-03T04:04:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kniz \* > \*\*I’ve seen these claims of times that are unbelievable to me, so I’m not doubting them so much as trying to figure how they are possible. Claims above of 2 or 3 seconds, I cannot make five or six wild clicks in that time. Do you play that way and just wait until it happens to win the game? My fastest time ever on the “expert” has been 216. Now I don’t ever expect to set the world record, national record, state record, but when I see people claiming 85 (here) and sixty some on a minesweeper site I just do not understand. Like **babydrln** says a lot of it is deduction but it boils down to making a guess. In order to get fast times is it all a guess? \*\* No, it’s not all guessing. You have to be able to reason pretty quickly. On the other hand, there is quite a bit of luck involved in getting a time that involves finding significantly more than one mine per second. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2001, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minesweeper-addiction/90884/14 "2001-11-04T21:25:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Googler \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Northern Piper \* > > \*\*[sidebar] NP-complete? logic term? inquiring minds want to know [/sidebar] \*\* > > I am not even going to try explaining NP-complete here.I never do it well.☹ The above links should help. \*\* **Googler,** I take back my comment about “fobbing me off with links.” I looked at them. I looked at **ultrafilter’s** link. I read the comments which followed on this thread. My head hurts. Thanks for trying. The Rule against Perpetuties now seems a model of clarity and simplicity. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2001, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minesweeper-addiction/90884/15 "2001-11-04T21:47:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Northern Piper \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Googler \* > > \*\* > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > \*Originally posted by Northern Piper \* > > > \*\*[sidebar] NP-complete? logic term? inquiring minds want to know [/sidebar] \*\* > > > > I am not even going to try explaining NP-complete here.I never do it well.☹ The above links should help. \*\* > > **Googler,** I take back my comment about “fobbing me off with links.” > > I looked at them. > > I looked at **ultrafilter’s** link. > > I read the comments which followed on this thread. > > My head hurts. > > Thanks for trying. > > The Rule against Perpetuties now seems a model of clarity and simplicity. \*\* NP-completeness is definitely not a simple concept. I don’t know anyone (myself included) who really understood it the first time around. So don’t feel at all bad for getting a headache.