# mini rant... Winter packages on new cars **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 19, 2016, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mini-rant-winter-packages-on-new-cars/749524 "2016-03-19T14:08:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mini-rant-winter-packages-on-new-cars/749524/21 "2016-03-21T14:32:10Z")
From what I gather, all-season tires are adequate in most parts of the US that see snow- only a few places like the Rockies and maybe Wisconsin, Minnesota and the Dakotas really require snow tires. So armed with that, you have to figure that it’s not cost-effective for Subaru to specifically spec snow tires for specific markets, considering that I’d imagine that the vast, vast majority of “winter package” vehicles go to areas where all-season tires are adequate. And if it’s not cost-effective for Subaru, it’s almost certainly less so for the dealer to retrofit them for free. WTF are they going to do with a whole bunch of all-season Outback tires that they already paid for? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mini-rant-winter-packages-on-new-cars/749524/22 "2016-03-21T14:46:15Z")
> [@bump](#): > > And if it’s not cost-effective for Subaru, it’s almost certainly less so for the dealer to retrofit them for free. WTF are they going to do with a whole bunch of all-season Outback tires that they already paid for? I don’t think that the dealer should be involved. Just like the dealer doesn’t upgrade the car from the 4 cylinder to the 6. This should all be done at the factory. I’ll pay for the upgrade, but it should be the difference in cost between the two different tires. I just think it should be an option offered by the manufacturer. Dealer shouldn’t be involved at all. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mini-rant-winter-packages-on-new-cars/749524/23 "2016-03-21T15:12:09Z")
All your vehicles have been delivered through dealerships, right? Those dealerships had a stake in each of those sales. You paid them anyway; let them work a little for you. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mini-rant-winter-packages-on-new-cars/749524/24 "2016-03-21T15:14:51Z")
> [@bump](#): > > From what I gather, all-season tires are adequate in most parts of the US… WTF are they going to do with a whole bunch of all-season Outback tires that they already paid for? Wait, what? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mini-rant-winter-packages-on-new-cars/749524/25 "2016-03-21T15:42:05Z")
Here’s one way a manufacturer could handle this … last fall in Canada [Ford, Lexus, Mitsubishi, and Nissan offered winter tires as a free option](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/news/industry-news/auto-makers-offering-free-winter-tires-as-winter-approaches/article26783785/) on selected vehicles. My reading of it is that these came with their own rims and were additional to the standard all-seasons. Absent such an offer, I agree with the suggestion that this is the sort of thing you negotiate with the dealer. Personally I’m still a confirmed year-round all-season user and have never had any traction or stopping issues, though obviously it depends on where you live. Where I live the roads are usually bare and dry in winter, sometimes wet, almost never snow-covered. The part of the article that stresses the “importance” of winter tires is the sort of preachiness we get around here that I find annoying. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mini-rant-winter-packages-on-new-cars/749524/26 "2016-03-21T16:07:44Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Wait, what? I was saying that no dealer is going to retrofit factory cars with winter tires, because they’d take the hit on the factory tires, and what are they going to do with them? ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mini-rant-winter-packages-on-new-cars/749524/27 "2016-03-22T01:13:51Z")
You all know something: “snow tires” aren’t just for snow; they’re for cold weather. I don’t need snow tires in Detroit for snow, either, but it gets cold and snow tires have excellent traction in cold weather whereas all season tires tend to get a bit hard in comparison. ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mini-rant-winter-packages-on-new-cars/749524/28 "2016-03-22T06:28:25Z")
Snow tires are a hot button topic. Don’t even mention studs. I live in the mountains where we have long winters. I HAVE been snowed on in August. I use all season tires year round, have for over 20 years. I live on a dirt road with a big hill and have to plow it myself,(actually the neighbors plowed this year). I use 4 WD or AWD minimum. My wife has a 2015 Subaru Outback with all seasons on it. You don’t need snow tires. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mini-rant-winter-packages-on-new-cars/749524/29 "2016-03-22T12:19:40Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > I don’t need snow tires in Detroit for snow, either, but it gets cold and snow tires have excellent traction in cold weather whereas all season tires tend to get a bit hard in comparison. Do you have a cite for this? Certainly snow tires would be better than true summer tires, but all season tires are fine for cold weather. I run all season tires on my Suby here in New England and have never had an issue, even up in the mountains where we ski nearly every weekend. There are times when I would have liked snows, but that’s mainly on icy conditions where the rubber compounds on snow tires really shine. I’ve never had a single problem with my all season tires in temps as low as 20 below on dry roads. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mini-rant-winter-packages-on-new-cars/749524/30 "2016-03-22T13:18:30Z")
OP, spare a thought for those of us who are forced to buy cars with heated seats in places where the mean annual temperature is 74 degrees. What the fuck do I need heated seats for? I see frost on the windshield one morning per year. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mini-rant-winter-packages-on-new-cars/749524/31 "2016-03-22T13:18:37Z")
So, you’re gonna need snow tires and summer tires anyway, right? So why not go to the tire store, buy a set of snows, have them put on, and toss the summer ones in the cellar until spring? Yeah, it would be nice to have it done as part of the deal, but you’ll probably make out better buying them elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mini-rant-winter-packages-on-new-cars/749524/32 "2016-03-22T13:43:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > OP, spare a thought for those of us who are forced to buy cars with heated seats in places where the mean annual temperature is 74 degrees. What the fuck do I need heated seats for? I see frost on the windshield one morning per year. Heated seats feel great on a sore back after a long run, hike, or bike ride. I’ll sometimes have the AC going and the seats on in mid-summer. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mini-rant-winter-packages-on-new-cars/749524/33 "2016-03-22T14:15:50Z")
> [@steatopygia](#): > > You don’t need snow tires. :rolleyes: Yes, yes, some of us do. My 4x4 plow truck is chained up on all 4 wheels and I have had that stuck. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mini-rant-winter-packages-on-new-cars/749524/34 "2016-03-22T14:17:30Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > So, you’re gonna need snow tires and summer tires anyway, right? So why not go to the tire store, buy a set of snows, have them put on, and toss the summer ones in the cellar until spring? Don’t need summer tires. It’s pointless to fool with them for our very short summers. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mini-rant-winter-packages-on-new-cars/749524/35 "2016-03-22T14:18:33Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > OP, spare a thought for those of us who are forced to buy cars with heated seats in places where the mean annual temperature is 74 degrees. What the fuck do I need heated seats for? I see frost on the windshield one morning per year. You should be able to opt out of them depending on the package you buy. Can’t you? ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mini-rant-winter-packages-on-new-cars/749524/36 "2016-03-22T14:43:19Z")
Subaru Canada offered winter tires on steel rims lat year as part of their Fall/Winter promo. No reason you couldn’t have had them throw a set in as part of the negotiations. The other alternative is take $1500 to your local tire shop and have them put your all-seasons on a set of nice aftermarket rims and hard core winters on your stock rims. [Cite](http://www.fountaintire.com/tires/winter-tires-101) for all-season tires getting stiff in the winter. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mini-rant-winter-packages-on-new-cars/749524/37 "2016-03-22T14:48:37Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > You should be able to opt out of them depending on the package you buy. Can’t you? IME, when they are offered on a vehicle they’re generally part of the standard equipment. They weren’t optional on my VW (though I didn’t buy it new anyway). ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mini-rant-winter-packages-on-new-cars/749524/38 "2016-03-22T22:44:42Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > OP, spare a thought for those of us who are forced to buy cars with heated seats in places where the mean annual temperature is 74 degrees. What the fuck do I need heated seats for? I see frost on the windshield one morning per year. After wearing my summer uniform of cargo shorts and a polo shirt to damn near any indoor restaurant in greater Miami I need my heated seats to reheat my body after freezing for anhour or more in the damn 65 degree air-conditioned-unto-meat-locker f\*\*\*ing restaurant. Morons. I keep a fleece track suit in the car just for wearing into restaurants. Sometimes even that’s not enough. My heated seats are a necessity even in August after some meals. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mini-rant-winter-packages-on-new-cars/749524/39 "2016-03-22T23:00:07Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Out of curiosity, what rough percentage of people in Colorado use snow tires? I have no clue whether it might be 15% or 90%. I’ll bet it is a _lot_ lower than the 90% someone else mentioned. Nobody I know has them (I’m in Boulder). We here in the populated areas of the state (sorry, **enipla** ) tend to get our snow in large and quick dumps that clear off the roads quickly. There is a saying here that “It never snows on snow” which is largely true. So you just drive slowly and carefully five or six times a winter or work from home. Much better and cheaper and less hassle than dealing with snow tires. P.S. Re: It never snows on snow: I got 11" of snow on Friday and it is completely gone. It is 68° right now at 5 PM. There is a Blizzard Warning for tomorrow (seriously). ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mini-rant-winter-packages-on-new-cars/749524/40 "2016-03-23T00:29:58Z")
Oh I know **Lamar** , I lived in Boulder for 1 year, and Denver for 17. Except for one year in high school, I’ve always had a 4x4 as my primary vehicle (did a LOT of 4-wheeling) or had a 4x4 as a spare. I’m used to being able to go where I want to go no matter what the weather (unless the roads are closed of course). I now work for County Government (Summit). I’ve missed a total of 3 days of work because of snow in 23 years on the job. When you work in an area that has the ski industry as the largest employer, the excuse of not being able to get to work because of snow is…rather silly. I remember the dates of two of the times we could not make it to work. April 19th (the day of the OK City bombing) and another was October 10th. Columbus day. So, as I said winter here is very long. And changing over to other tires and back is just a pain in the ass. Selling the All-Seasons that came with the car is a pain in the ass too. I would like to see an option of putting good tires on a car when you special order it. I’ll be buying a new SUV in about four years. I’ll see if I can force the issue. And it concerns me what type of 4x4 will be available. My OP was a ‘mini-rant’. Buying a $35,000 car that is known and advertised to excel in snow and not being able to get up the driveway because of the stupid tires was rather deflating for my Wife. Me too. But I figured I’d have to plow, and did when the new Subaru AWD with All-Seasons could not get the car home. My Wifes Grand Jeep or my Pathfinder would not have had a problem because… Blizzaks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mini-rant-winter-packages-on-new-cars/749524.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mini-rant-winter-packages-on-new-cars/749524.md?page=3)