# minimum $ purchases to use credit card - legal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 7, 2004, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-purchases-to-use-credit-card-legal/268107 "2004-10-07T22:19:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-purchases-to-use-credit-card-legal/268107/21 "2004-10-08T02:17:13Z")
> [@stockton](#): > > As it happens, I AM the guy that publishes the book that goes to the quickie marts with the CC rules spelled out inside. > > If you accept VISA and MC, you have agreed to the terms they specify. It is not ambiguous in any way. IF you accept these cards, you may not prescribe a minimum transaction amount. If you do and ENOUGH FOLKS COMPLAIN, they’ll yank your account. No CCs. Good luck, quickie mart. How about the practice of tacking on a fee for the use of a credit card? I was looking at some old literature Chevron put out to promote their credit card, and their big selling point was that the price of everything bought at a Chevron station was the same, whether you used cash or a credit card. Now, I’m young, and I can’t even really remember a time when credit card use wasn’t widespread or you couldn’t pay at the pump. In fact, the first time I ever saw a fee like that was at a restaurant that opened a couple of years ago here near school. I could tell they weren’t just trying to cover their fees, which I could understand and wouldn’t mind very much, because the fee was $10. As far as I can tell, it’s a heavy-handed attempt to discourage credit-card use. (I’ve only eaten there a couple of times; partially because of that and partially because the food isn’t all that great.) ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-purchases-to-use-credit-card-legal/268107/22 "2004-10-08T02:19:44Z")
Geeze, all that, and I forgot my other point. I also can’t remember ever having seen a higher/different price for using a credit card anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![JayElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4bbf92/32.png) [@JayElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JayElle)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-purchases-to-use-credit-card-legal/268107/23 "2004-10-08T02:38:13Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > It also costs money to handle cash, more than most people realize. Does your accounting department consider that cost? Yep, but weirdly enough it comes out of another department’s budget. I am required to bring in x percentage in net revenue. If my credit card fees exceed my budget, then I have to make up for it by slashing other expenses and/or raising gross margin. One way or another, I better provide that bottom line revenue. I’m in agreement that businesses should not require a minimum pruchase for a credit card transaction. If a business feels that service fees are too high so they’re gonna start asking for a minimum, then they’re probably not handling their budgets in the best manner. My point was that many customers may not realize there is a vendor cost in accepting credit cards. If enough folks start charging thier $.37 gum purchase, then eventually that gum will one day cost the customer more. Since I don’t deal with cash handling costs (and I’m talking about count-out procedures, banking, etc. and not cashier wages), I’m interested in anyone who can tell me what percentage of gross dollars that represents. How does it compare to credit card service fees? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-purchases-to-use-credit-card-legal/268107/24 "2004-10-08T03:17:25Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Geeze, all that, and I forgot my other point. I also can’t remember ever having seen a higher/different price for using a credit card anywhere. I can. There was a (short) time (early 80s?) when gas stations (in southern Maryland, where I was at the time) were like 2 cents different for cash and credit. I don’t remember which was higher. (That was informative, wasn’t it?) ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-purchases-to-use-credit-card-legal/268107/25 "2004-10-08T04:09:30Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > I can. There was a (short) time (early 80s?) when gas stations (in southern Maryland, where I was at the time) were like 2 cents different for cash and credit. I don’t remember which was higher. (That was informative, wasn’t it?) For quite a long time, in fact, and in most parts of the country, I believe, gasoline cost more if you wanted to pay with a credit card. For a while, as the practice began to die out, the big marketing line was, “cash or credit, same price!” ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-purchases-to-use-credit-card-legal/268107/26 "2004-10-08T04:36:18Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > :dubious: What sort of place do you shop in that the checkout clerk can’t break a twenty? I’ve _never_ been in _any_ walk-in store where, under normal circumstances, a debit or credit card would be faster than just handing over legal tender for small purchases. I agree with regard to the breaking of twenties, but I must still disagree about cash being faster than credit. For me, it isn’t, not even if I have exact change. This is because approximately 95% of my small-ticket purchases are made at the Kroger across the street, where at the U-Scan counter, credit card purchases of $25 or less do not require a signature. Walk up to scanner, press Start, BEEP, BEEP, BEEP, press Pay, Credit Card, swipe, walk away. Takes thirty seconds from start to finish, and that’s if I have more than one item. YMMV, of course, depending on the circustances at the place you usually shop. Some places have dinosaur CC machines that take a full minute to process and print. In that case, cash would be faster. In other words, the whole debate is subjective. As far as I’m concerned, do whatever is easiest for you. With that said: _man_, I hate checks. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-purchases-to-use-credit-card-legal/268107/27 "2004-10-08T04:48:23Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > I also can’t remember ever having seen a higher/different price for using a credit card anywhere. McDonald’s charges $0.75, Taco Bell $1. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Long\_Road](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@The\_Long\_Road](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Long_Road)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-purchases-to-use-credit-card-legal/268107/28 "2004-10-08T04:48:23Z")
> [@twelvericepaddies](#): > > Oh come on - join the real world - have a little perspective for a change. Merchants just cannot afford to handle a transaction for pennies. I am a merchant accepting credit cards but only handle larger transactions. But I see people constantly so cheap and so silly as to try to put very trivial amounts on CCs - it astonishes me. And we all stand in line behind people using debit cards for kiddie sums and wait, and wait, and wait until their $1.23 transaction clears. Many people today are just simply unrealistic. How is someone “cheap” if they pay for something with a CC? Are they getting a discount on it? I use my check card(Visa type) for most things I can get away with. When using my card as a debit card, its just about as fast as paying with cash since the processing time is very short. If I have it on hand I’ll usually pay with cash but plenty of times I don’t have a nickel on me and still want the item. Before it just bothered me but I think now I’ll start reporting people for doing this. ---
**Author:** ![Voodoochile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/898d66/32.png) [@Voodoochile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voodoochile)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-purchases-to-use-credit-card-legal/268107/29 "2004-10-08T04:57:13Z")
> [@JayElle](#): > > My point was that many customers may not realize there is a vendor cost in accepting credit cards. If enough folks start charging thier $.37 gum purchase, then eventually that gum will one day cost the customer more. Or, as for example the situation of the OP, nothing in the store will cost less than $10. Thats one way for the merchant to get around the minumum purchase shtick. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-purchases-to-use-credit-card-legal/268107/30 "2004-10-08T05:18:31Z")
Dear god, CC comapnies are getting 2+% of our nation’s consumer GDP just to process these everyday transactions? I can see why they’re so scared of upstarts like Discovery, etc. I wonder if a company is permitted to grant a “discount” for someone using a CC that charges less, the difference of costs in CC’s. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-purchases-to-use-credit-card-legal/268107/31 "2004-10-08T05:32:23Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > There are so many of these “can a shop legally do such and such” threads on here. Look, it’s their shop; they make the rules. If they want to specify that they will only accept payment in cashew nuts, at the rate of one pound of kernels per dollar, then they can do it. Sure, they won’t do much business, but it’s their choice. Sorry, have to say this but…You signed an agreement with the CC company. It’s _their_ business, _they_ make the rules, if they won’t allow you to set a minimum purchase, they can do it. If you want to set a minimum purchase, go ahead, just don’t plan to enfoce it for MC or Visa purchase. As a side note, IIRC correctly from other discussions about this topic, American express, DOES allow a merchant to set a minimum if they only accept Amex (and possibly Discover), BUT if you also accept MC and/or Visa, then you can not set a minimum for Amex either. I don’t think Discover has any rules regarding this topic. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-purchases-to-use-credit-card-legal/268107/32 "2004-10-08T05:36:47Z")
> [@threemae](#): > > Dear god, CC comapnies are getting 2+% of our nation’s consumer GDP just to process these everyday transactions? I can see why they’re so scared of upstarts like Discovery, etc. I wonder if a company is permitted to grant a “discount” for someone using a CC that charges less, the difference of costs in CC’s. Are you asking if I, as a merchant, can charge you $10 for a CD if you use Visa or $9.50 if you use MC because MC charges me less? That would be tricky. In general you’d don’t negotiate your terms directly with MC and Visa (though you do with AMEX and Discover), it’s done through a third party that handles it. Either way, if MC or Visa really wanted to give you a hard time, they could probably find a way to show that you were charging an extra fee for using their card rather then a discount for not using it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-purchases-to-use-credit-card-legal/268107/33 "2004-10-08T08:50:09Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > McDonald’s charges $0.75, Taco Bell $1. That’s illegal also. But what they can do is have a discount for cash. The important thing is that according to CA law, the listed price is the price you should expect to pay. So- the “99 cent burrito” had better be 99cents even if charged on a CC- but you can say "5% discount for cash’ or whatever. They can charge extra for an ATM card transaction, however. But before you start getting all het up- note that banks charge their Business customers for cash transactions. It isn’t as much as CC, but since the risks are smaller for a hold up with cash, it tends to be six of one, a half-dozen to another. I think that what businesses need to do is put a sign asking their customers to “PLEASE not charge less that $X.XX due to high service fees”. That will work better than trying to bully them with illegal tactics that only loses a customer. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-purchases-to-use-credit-card-legal/268107/34 "2004-10-08T10:35:38Z")
> [@Joey P](#): > > Sorry, have to say this but…You signed an agreement with the CC company. It’s _their_ business, _they_ make the rules, if they won’t allow you to set a minimum purchase, they can do it. If you want to set a minimum purchase, go ahead, just don’t plan to enfoce it for MC or Visa purchase. > As a side note, IIRC correctly from other discussions about this topic, American express, DOES allow a merchant to set a minimum if they only accept Amex (and possibly Discover), BUT if you also accept MC and/or Visa, then you can not set a minimum for Amex either. I don’t think Discover has any rules regarding this topic. I’m interested to know whether these MasterCard and Visa rules are global, or only for the US. In the UK, minimum transactions for both debit _and_ credit cards are common - £5 is common but even £10 is not unusual. I have never heard of this being illegal in this country. There again, I think we’re more coin-friendly than the US - most people carry plenty of change around with them for small purchases. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-purchases-to-use-credit-card-legal/268107/35 "2004-10-08T11:30:52Z")
In Japan they’ve devised a “clever” strategy: stores create point cards, but you only get the points if you _don’t_ use a credit card. (And stores do these point cards for other reasons, too.) So you have a point card for every damn store you use, a pile of them, and it’s ridiculous. Would such “point card” arrangements violate the CC company agreements in the US? ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-purchases-to-use-credit-card-legal/268107/36 "2004-10-08T13:40:13Z")
> [@](#): > > I have never heard of this being illegal in this country. > [@](#): > > That’s illegal also. > [@](#): > > That will work better than trying to bully them with illegal tactics that only loses a customer. > [@](#): > > I thought this was illegal,… To clarify, minimum purchase requirements or additional fees imposed on credit card purchases are not illegal. It is solely a matter of contract between the card issuer and the merchant. No merchant will be arrested or cited for setting minimums or charging additional fees for credit card purchases. At worse their card processing account will be closed and they will no longer be able to accept credit cards as payment. All of the merchant agreements I’ve seen, and I’ve spent 20+ years in banking and retail, contain the verbage mentioned by **stockton** - no fees, no minimum purchase amount. That’s why during the days of different prices for cash or credit at the gas pump it was advertised as a “cash discount” instead of a “credit card premium”. It’s in the CC issuer’s best interest that the cards be, from the consumer’s perspective, the same as cash. Since the CC issuer writes the contract they cover their asses, not necessarily the merchant’s. The selling point to the merchant is that increased sales will more than offset the fees. That said, I’m in a business now where price is negotiated. If I find out that you plan to pay with a CC (and I will ask how you plan to pay), my bottom dollar price goes up 5%. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-purchases-to-use-credit-card-legal/268107/37 "2004-10-08T14:04:53Z")
> [@Roland Orzabal](#): > > Some places have dinosaur CC machines that take a full minute to process and print. Some places have [gasp][shudder] human checkout clerks. Usually one of the two weak links in the process when you attempt alternative payment methods, I admit. However, I’ve been tempted to engage in civil disorder at the auto-checkout, on account of (a) the people who seek to use it w/o the foggiest notion of what they’re doing or (b) the system repeatedly insisting that I did not take the step I just took. > [@](#): > > With that said: _man_, I hate checks. Yeah, but they’re not THAT that much slower _if all parties know what they’re doing and do it properly._ That’s why I said “under normal circumstances.” But indeed if the agreement with Visa/MC is that there be no minimum, there should be no minimum, however much I may actually support there being a minimum. Then again the National Association fo Retailers could be bothered to use some of their resources to lobby for a _legal_ exemption for transactions that would be worth less than X above the processing fee, if it were that much trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-purchases-to-use-credit-card-legal/268107/38 "2004-10-08T14:14:01Z")
> [@threemae](#): > > Dear god, CC comapnies are getting 2+% of our nation’s consumer GDP just to process these everyday transactions? True, they’re just “everyday transactions,” but the CC companies have to maintain systems that can handle billions of transactions every day, instantaneously, while simultaneously looking for suspicious usage patterns that might indicate CC fraud. If you have to wait more than about 20 seconds for your purchase to be approved, you start getting impatient. Frankly, I’m amazed that it works at all! Some of that 2% also helps to cover the people who declare personal bankruptcy and walk away from their whopping CC debts. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-purchases-to-use-credit-card-legal/268107/39 "2004-10-08T15:01:18Z")
> [@twelvericepaddies](#): > > Oh come on - join the real world - have a little perspective for a change. Merchants just cannot afford to handle a transaction for pennies. I am a merchant accepting credit cards but only handle larger transactions. But I see people constantly so cheap and so silly as to try to put very trivial amounts on CCs - it astonishes me. And we all stand in line behind people using debit cards for kiddie sums and wait, and wait, and wait until their $1.23 transaction clears. Many people today are just simply unrealistic. > [@Colophon](#): > > There are so many of these “can a shop legally do such and such” threads on here. Look, it’s their shop; they make the rules. If they want to specify that they will only accept payment in cashew nuts, at the rate of one pound of kernels per dollar, then they can do it. Sure, they won’t do much business, but it’s their choice. Both **twelvericepaddies** and **Colophon** miss the boat. While the shop can generally do what they please, one thing they are obligated to do is honor their agreements. If they wish to accept Visa cards, they must enter into an agreement with Visa. If they wish to accept Mastercard, they must enter into an agreement with Mastercard. In so doing, they agree to accept card purchases for trivial amounts. They are, of course, perfectly free to decide that this condition is too onerous, and decline to agree. But they may not unilaterally abrogate or modify their ageements with Visa and Mastercard. If they chose to attempt this, it is perfectly proper to report them to Visa and Mastercard for whatever action those two organizations deem appropriate. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-purchases-to-use-credit-card-legal/268107/40 "2004-10-08T16:04:49Z")
> [@Early Out](#): > > Some of that 2% also helps to cover the people who declare personal bankruptcy and walk away from their whopping CC debts. This is a hijack of a perfectly good thread, but if the CC company wasn’t charging 29.99% then there wouldn"t be so many bankrupcies either, but thats a chicken and egg thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-purchases-to-use-credit-card-legal/268107.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-purchases-to-use-credit-card-legal/268107.md?page=3)