# Minimum Requirements for a Successful Military Coup in the USA? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 5, 2010, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-requirements-for-a-successful-military-coup-in-the-usa/542056 "2010-06-05T13:54:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-requirements-for-a-successful-military-coup-in-the-usa/542056/21 "2010-06-07T00:02:19Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Libertarian fanatics don’t want a right-wing government anymore a communistic one. That seems inaccurate. Libertarians, fanatic or no, generally have some level of government that they consider a good idea, or at least necessary. There are certainly libertarians who would favour generally right-wing policies in that limited government. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-requirements-for-a-successful-military-coup-in-the-usa/542056/22 "2010-06-07T00:58:43Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > In the case of Iraq, the portion of the citizenry devoted to fighting the Coalition is mostly dead now. It took awhile, but they lost. > > In the case of Afghanistan, it’s not purely a partisan war by any stretch of the imagination; it’s militarized Afghan factions fighting each other, and we’re on one side. > > The history of partisan warfare is really very clear; what partisans do, much better than professional soldiers, is die. They die in waves, by the thousands, in horrendous ratios. In every substantial partisan effort in opposition to a professional military ever fought, the partisans spent most of their time getting shot. > > If a substantial portion of American citizens were to try to fight the U.S. Armed Services, the citizens would be slaughtered. A fool with a hunting rifle is nothing more than a target for a real soldier. It would be helpful if you have some examples of a well-armed populace dying in droves against their own country’s army, who depend on that populace for material support. The situation is not really comparable to Iraq and Afghanistan. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-requirements-for-a-successful-military-coup-in-the-usa/542056/23 "2010-06-08T00:41:49Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > That seems inaccurate. Libertarians, fanatic or no, generally have some level of government that they consider a good idea, or at least necessary. There are certainly libertarians who would favour generally right-wing policies in that limited government. I meant they wouldn’t favour a right-wing dictatorship-they’ll stick to minarchist constitutionalism. ---
**Author:** ![ChrisBooth12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@ChrisBooth12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChrisBooth12)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-requirements-for-a-successful-military-coup-in-the-usa/542056/24 "2010-06-08T18:58:04Z")
You would never get every pocket of military. I am sure tank commanders would go rouge defending their country. Possibly each state fending for itself. I could see Texas sealing off its borders. They probably have the capability too. I do not see this happening. Our Military is run by a Civi. Who has codes for the nukes. I do not think nukes can be used with one pereson. Plus the military would want to see if martial law was actually declared. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-requirements-for-a-successful-military-coup-in-the-usa/542056/25 "2010-06-08T20:31:16Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I meant they wouldn’t favour a right-wing dictatorship-they’ll stick to minarchist constitutionalism. Why not? Libertarianism doesn’t strike me as any more opposed to dictatorship than most polititcal viewpoints. A libertarian dictator might well only demand control of a respectively smaller amount of things, but that’s still a dictatorship. If anything, I would wager that libertarians in general would probably be slightly more in favour proportionally of such an idea than more mainstream political viewpoints, given they don’t really have much power in society as is. But, anyway, there’s no especial reason to assume greater than average rejection of dictatorialism based solely on their ideals. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-requirements-for-a-successful-military-coup-in-the-usa/542056/26 "2010-06-09T00:45:22Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Why not? Libertarianism doesn’t strike me as any more opposed to dictatorship than most polititcal viewpoints. A libertarian dictator might well only demand control of a respectively smaller amount of things, but that’s still a dictatorship. If anything, I would wager that libertarians in general would probably be slightly more in favour proportionally of such an idea than more mainstream political viewpoints, given they don’t really have much power in society as is. But, anyway, there’s no especial reason to assume greater than average rejection of dictatorialism based solely on their ideals. A libertarian dictator is an oxymoron. Libertarians are all about freedom-radical ones don’t want any government and those who support one are minarchists who just want a police and army to enforce the law or libertarian socialists who want the power of corporations rolled back. ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-requirements-for-a-successful-military-coup-in-the-usa/542056/27 "2010-06-09T18:17:52Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > A libertarian dictator is an oxymoron. Libertarians are all about freedom-radical ones don’t want any government and those who support one are minarchists who just want a police and army to enforce the law or libertarian socialists who want the power of corporations rolled back. Dictatorship simply means that the laws are determined by the dictator — said dictator would be libertarian if he created a relatively limited set of laws. IOW, libertarian means that laws are limited in scope —it doesn’t (necessarily) address how those laws are made. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-requirements-for-a-successful-military-coup-in-the-usa/542056/28 "2010-06-09T18:24:00Z")
You’ll never convince high-ranking officers to flip the front seat forward to crawl into the back seat. It’s just undignified. The military will stick with sedans, guaranteed. ---
**Author:** ![AmunRa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AmunRa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AmunRa)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-requirements-for-a-successful-military-coup-in-the-usa/542056/29 "2010-06-10T03:48:02Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Soldiers follow orders, it’s what they do. So the minimum requirements for a successful military coup is to convince the troops that [Person Rank n, n=1 -\> infinity] is more legitimate than [Person Rank n+1]. Failing that you have a court martial of [Person Rank n] > > The US military is massive and divided up into several branches. So I would contend that at the very least you’d have to convince the joint chiefs, since below them you splinter into the various branches. As an example, Sergent Major of the US Army is third in command of the Army, but has zero influence with the Navy. Soldiers do _not_ “follow orders.” We follow **lawful** orders. Good luck convincing a majority of the United States military that the orders associated with a coup are lawful. For the Army alone you have to got from the Chief of staff-\>All of the ma-com commanding generals-\>All of the Corps/Brigade commanders-\>All of the battalion commanders-\>All of the company commanders-\>All of the platoon leaders. If and only if every single one of those people agrees with the order are the grunts even going to hear about it. Any one of the officers above them can decide that the coup attempt is unlawful and not pass on the order. There may or may not be consequences for any officers that refuse to follow the orders coming from the coup side, but my opinion as a soldier is that the officers of the US military are not going to universally support a coup, and without the universal support of the officers substantial parts of the military are not going to be under your control. Also as someone already pointed out the Sergeant Major of the Army is not in the chain of command at all. He has about as much influence on the strategic decisions of the Army as he does with the Navy (little to none.) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-requirements-for-a-successful-military-coup-in-the-usa/542056/30 "2010-06-10T03:57:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Minimum Requirements for a Successful Military Coup in the USA? You will need a bar of soap (non-scented), a spool of 12 gauge wire, a rabbits foot (freshly tanned), 3 oranges, some grass seed (fescue works best for this), a car jack, an old sock (woolen, knitted), a ski mask, some bubble gum and, of course a roll of duck tape. That’s about it, really. Now, if you want to talk about the recommended requirements, that’s another story… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-requirements-for-a-successful-military-coup-in-the-usa/542056/31 "2010-06-10T22:50:28Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > A libertarian dictator is an oxymoron. Libertarians are all about freedom-radical ones don’t want any government and those who support one are minarchists who just want a police and army to enforce the law or libertarian socialists who want the power of corporations rolled back. A libertarian dictator is no more an oxymoron than a liberal dictator, or conservative dictator. I am sure that most political parties would describe themselves as being all about freedom. However, wanting less government, or less control over the individual by government, is not the same as wanting less of a stranglehold on power by particular governors. A dictatorship is not contradictory to a situation of having just a police and army to enforce the law, or to the idea of rolling back the power of corporations. A libertarian dictatorship is perfectly possible (in theoretical terms, I mean). ---
**Author:** ![ChrisBooth12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@ChrisBooth12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChrisBooth12)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-requirements-for-a-successful-military-coup-in-the-usa/542056/32 "2010-06-11T02:58:10Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Libertarian fanatics don’t want a right-wing government anymore a communistic one. > > For some state capitals such as Indianapolis or Phoenix this might make sense but California won’t be much affected by the seizure of _ **Sacramento** _ (unless its coupled with capturing San Francisco/San Jose/Oakland) Not without a fight if I have anything to say about it. On another note you cannot discount police forces with swat gear. Some people will not allow their city to be taken over in shambles ---
**Author:** ![ChrisBooth12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@ChrisBooth12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChrisBooth12)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-requirements-for-a-successful-military-coup-in-the-usa/542056/33 "2010-06-11T03:00:13Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But it can get confusing pretty quickly. Suppose Obama and Biden have disappeared. And you’ve got Nancy Pelosi, Robert Gates, Admiral Mullen, and Arnold Schwarzenegger all giving out conflicting orders. Each of them is saying there was a coup attempt and the President is being unlawfully held. But each of them is saying the other three were in on the coup and they’re the one that’s trying to restore the legitimate government. Who do you believe? Arnold ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2010, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-requirements-for-a-successful-military-coup-in-the-usa/542056/34 "2010-06-12T12:03:35Z")
Chain of command and succession goes to Pelosi. She is legally and lawfully the boss until she is arrested or resigns, if I understand it. Anyone else issuing orders is pulling a Haig, and will quickly find themselves in a great deal of trouble. That being said, in the currently climate, I find the idea of McConnell stating that it’s a coup, and resisting the lawful orders of Madame Speaker… excuse me, President Pelosi not that far-fetched. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-requirements-for-a-successful-military-coup-in-the-usa/542056.md?page=1)