# Minimum weapon to damage an Abrams tank? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 3, 2011, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-weapon-to-damage-an-abrams-tank/573305 "2011-03-03T03:19:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-weapon-to-damage-an-abrams-tank/573305/41 "2011-03-03T15:01:54Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > IIRC the Abrams was upgraded to the **smooth-bore rifle**. By “rifle” do you mean “barrel”? I thought “smooth bore” and “rifle” were mutualy exclusive. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-weapon-to-damage-an-abrams-tank/573305/42 "2011-03-03T15:12:36Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Could you “blind” the tank crew by spraying the tank with some kind of obscurant? If the periscopes/cameras/windows are all covered with ink, the tank crew can’t drive anywhere or respond to threats without opening a hatch, thus exposing their fleshy parts to enemy fire. The problem with many of these ideas reminds me of the “How do you bell the cat?” children’s story. While plugging up a gun barrel might work, you have to expose yourself an awful lot to do it. Remember when the mice got together and decided that they could save their collective assess if only they knew the cat was coming, and a bell around the collar would be ample warning. All agreed; problem solved. Next question, “Who will put the bell on?” ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-weapon-to-damage-an-abrams-tank/573305/43 "2011-03-03T15:15:17Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > That’s what we’re talking about- where does a gun (as far as tanks go) stop being “small arms” and starts being artillery? Maybe a .50 caliber only dings the armor; does a 20mm chip out pockmarks? Does a 25mm crater the armor or crack plates? The main gun on the A-10 Avenger (a.k.a. "Warthog) is 30mm, and that definitely is something tanks have to worry about. The presentation **Hermitian** linked to mentions one being penetrated in the rear armor by a 25mm DU (depleted uranium) round. Two things I take away from that information: that must have been a US Bradley AFV, so either a friendly-fire accident or an attempt to destroy a disabled tank; and if the latter, the one hole implies penetration was unusual, as a 25mm cannon would normally fire many rounds. I have no cite, but I recently read that, although for a long time no M-1 had been destroyed by penetrating enemy fire, two M-1s have now been lost to penetrating fire. What I read did not specify how (which may even be classified), but the author spent a lot of time talking about [Kornet](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9M133_Kornet) anti-tank missiles. I also read that in numerous attempts to destroy M-1s that they were abandoning, US forces were unable to penetrate, or in some cases penetrated only after multiple attempts, the newer armor supplemented by depleted uranium mesh, even at point-blank range using tank main guns. That’s really impressive. > [@Lumpy](#): > > The idea is that the tank is continually taking forlorn-hope shots from underarmed opponents and while no single shot has any real hope of taking the tank out, the tank is slowly getting beat up. If you haven’t already, you should watch [The Beast](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beast_%281988_film%29). ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-weapon-to-damage-an-abrams-tank/573305/44 "2011-03-03T15:23:23Z")
I bet you could destroy one by suspending two enormous logs from rope slings and releasing them to simultaneously swing down and hit the tank from the sides. ---
**Author:** ![Heyoka13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Heyoka13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heyoka13)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-weapon-to-damage-an-abrams-tank/573305/45 "2011-03-03T15:28:51Z")
OK, thinking out of the box here, take crescent wrenches and a socket set and just start taking the tank apart. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-weapon-to-damage-an-abrams-tank/573305/46 "2011-03-03T15:29:02Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > Basically small arms and machine guns would make sleeping difficult for the crew but that’s about all. I suppose you could try to lure a tank into a trap of soem kind by pinging small arms off the turret on the assumption it would drive over to where the shooting came from. > [@smithsb](#): > > It’s going to need fuel pretty much every day if moving. If actively engaging, multiple ammo uploads as well each day. One interesting point made in the presentation **Hermitian** linked to was that while in hostile country, the need to constantly traverse the turrets impacted maintenance and fuel consumption. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > If you threw enough Molotov Cocktails at it could you heat the inside sufficiently to make the crew bail? No cite, but I recently read that an M-1 set on fire during urban fighting was abandoned without recovering the driver’s body (too hot to go in there). When the wreck was recovered hours later, the driver was found alive and unhurt, having been protected by the automatic fire suppression system (and, I’d guess, by bottled oxygen) inside the flaming wreck. So I conclude it would take a _lot_ of flammable material to achieve this on an Abrams. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > In which case I go back to the shovel. Tank traps have been a part of warfare since the things were invented. See what the Soviets achieved at Kursk. They built massive (as in a lot) tank defenses around there. Pretty much all done with peasant labor and hand tools. Screwed the Germans pretty well. Yeah, the belt of fixed defenses (including anti-tank ditches, prepared gun posiions, and mines) was _a hundred miles deep_ at Kursk. ---
**Author:** ![Heyoka13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Heyoka13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heyoka13)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-weapon-to-damage-an-abrams-tank/573305/47 "2011-03-03T15:29:52Z")
Oh, damn, it’s METRIC! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-weapon-to-damage-an-abrams-tank/573305/48 "2011-03-03T15:31:17Z")
> [@Heyoka13](#): > > OK, thinking out of the box here, take crescent wrenches and a socket set and just start taking the tank apart. To expand - drive up in a truck labelled “roadside tank repair”? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-weapon-to-damage-an-abrams-tank/573305/49 "2011-03-03T15:32:33Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > The problem with many of these ideas reminds me of the “How do you bell the cat?” children’s story. While plugging up a gun barrel might work, you have to expose yourself an awful lot to do it. > > Remember when the mice got together and decided that they could save their collective assess if only they knew the cat was coming, and a bell around the collar would be ample warning. All agreed; problem solved. Next question, “Who will put the bell on?” A cat is pretty good at detecting, and defending against, attackers approaching from pretty much any direction. Is the same true of a tank? Can a tank crew shoot at individual soldiers approaching from the sides or rear? Can the tank crew respond rapidly if it’s an ambush (e.g. a soldier jumps out from behind a tree as the tank rolls by, and splatters it with ink)? What’s the small-caliber machine gun like on a tank? Is it a remote-controlled thing that might take a second or two to whirl around and zero in on such an attack, or is it a tank crew member who pops out of a hatch with a handheld weapon? If the former, does it have a limited range of elevation, such that it might be difficult to target a soldier standing/crouching right next to the tank? ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-weapon-to-damage-an-abrams-tank/573305/50 "2011-03-03T15:33:32Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > To expand - drive up in a truck labelled “roadside tank repair”? 😃 Chicks! The mechanics should be hot chicks in tank tops (duh!). From what I’ve seen of soldiers, the crew might be happy to let them crawl around, bending over gearboxes and handling tools. This could work! ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-weapon-to-damage-an-abrams-tank/573305/51 "2011-03-03T15:35:46Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Chicks! The mechanics should be hot chicks in tank tops (duh!). From what I’ve seen of soldiers, the crew might be happy to let them crawl around, bending over gearboxes and handling tools. > > This could work! Not if they are Marines. Jarheads handle their own tools. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-weapon-to-damage-an-abrams-tank/573305/52 "2011-03-03T15:41:32Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Chicks! The mechanics should be hot chicks in tank tops (duh!). From what I’ve seen of soldiers, the crew might be happy to let them crawl around, bending over gearboxes and handling tools. > > This could work! It could certainly do to fulfil the “minimum” requirement - “minimum” of clothing, that is. I think we have the answer … ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-weapon-to-damage-an-abrams-tank/573305/53 "2011-03-03T16:49:40Z")
In the 1956 uprising in Czechoslovakia, I seem to remember some modest success by the revolutionaries against Soviet tanks, yet the rebels were poorly supplied, so it wasn’t due to sophisticated weapons. What little I can [find:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956) > [@](#): > > By noon on 24 October, Soviet tanks were stationed outside the Parliament building and Soviet soldiers guarded key bridges and crossroads. Armed revolutionaries quickly set up barricades to defend Budapest, and were reported to have already captured some Soviet tanks by mid-morning. However, it is possible that the tanks were less “captured” than handed over by sympathetic troops. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-weapon-to-damage-an-abrams-tank/573305/54 "2011-03-03T16:52:33Z")
Heh, I remember reading in a book of urban legends about a wide-spead one involving some rebels somewhere painting a potato to look like a grenade, dropping it into the open hatch of a tank - causing the crew to flee in panic & allowing the rebels to capture the tank … 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-weapon-to-damage-an-abrams-tank/573305/55 "2011-03-03T17:04:22Z")
It seems to me that there’s a lot you can do to a tank if you can get close enough, and that the tank’s defenses against such attacks mostly consist of making sure the enemy doesn’t get that close to begin with. Which is fine if you’re fighting on a big open plain, but could present a problem in urban fighting, where the enemy can get close enough just by stepping out a doorway. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-weapon-to-damage-an-abrams-tank/573305/56 "2011-03-03T17:08:12Z")
Lone tanks are considerably more vulnerable than tanks that are supported by other tanks and by infantry. A friend of mine who served in an armored unit in WWII told me about tanks hosing each other down with machinegun fire to “scrape off” attacking foot soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-weapon-to-damage-an-abrams-tank/573305/57 "2011-03-03T17:25:55Z")
get the crew drunk. ---
**Author:** ![Lestrade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Lestrade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lestrade)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-weapon-to-damage-an-abrams-tank/573305/58 "2011-03-03T17:41:23Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > The problem with many of these ideas reminds me of the “How do you bell the cat?” children’s story. While plugging up a gun barrel might work, you have to expose yourself an awful lot to do it. > > Remember when the mice got together and decided that they could save their collective assess if only they knew the cat was coming, and a bell around the collar would be ample warning. All agreed; problem solved. Next question, “Who will put the bell on?” In my (limited) experience the cat learns how to stake out bird encampments and pounce. This eliminates the utility of the bell as the birds don’t hear the cat coming-the cat is already there. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-weapon-to-damage-an-abrams-tank/573305/59 "2011-03-03T17:51:21Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > I freely confess that a lot of what I know about tanks comes from playing [Battlezone](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlezone_(1980_video_game)) some 30 years ago. > > FWIW, the thread has shifted from “what’s the minimum weapon that will damage a tank” to “how can we stop a tank without anti-tank weapons” - at which point your only option is to get creative and hope for the best (while expecting to die). Along these lines, I suggest pointing your fingers at the tank and saying “bangitty-bang-bang!” No, wait … that’s already proven not to work by definition. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-weapon-to-damage-an-abrams-tank/573305/60 "2011-03-03T18:02:02Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I bet you could destroy one by suspending two enormous logs from rope slings and releasing them to simultaneously swing down and hit the tank from the sides. Gah! Ewoks! _Run away!_ If the OP didn’t want to get bogged down in the details of the actual capabilities and limitations of the M1 Abrams for his game, he could just posit a fictional type of tank, and describe it as he saw fit. May I suggest the M2A1 Chamberlain…? > **[Joshua Chamberlain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Lawrence_Chamberlain)** > > Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain (born Lawrence Joshua Chamberlain, September 8, 1828 – February 24, 1914) was an American college professor and politician from Maine who volunteered during the American Civil War to join the Union Army. He became a highly respected and decorated Union officer, reaching the rank of brigadier general (and brevet major general). He is best known for his gallantry at the Battle of Gettysburg, leading a bayonet charge, for which he was awarded the Medal of Honor. > Chambe... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-weapon-to-damage-an-abrams-tank/573305.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minimum-weapon-to-damage-an-abrams-tank/573305.md?page=4)