# Minivan or SUV? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 28, 2010, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minivan-or-suv/555354 "2010-09-28T14:58:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minivan-or-suv/555354/41 "2010-09-30T15:32:49Z")
A summary of my experiences with cars in these categories I’ve owned: Roominess 1. Grand Caravan (by far, got a couch and love seat in once) 2. Ford Exploder 3. Chevy Suburban (surprisingly the back does not have that much space) Handling in Snow 4. Ford Exploder (4WD) 5. Chevy Suburban (4WD) 6. Grand Caravan (FWD) - not impressed here Comfort 7. Suburban 8. Ford Exploder 9. Grand Caravan ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minivan-or-suv/555354/42 "2010-09-30T16:20:58Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > What about snow tires on an AWD? Is that done? The Sienna’s [brochure](http://www.toyota.com/byt4/2011/sienna/en/condensed_ebro.pdf?zip=12721) says that it takes P235/55RF18 run-flat tires. Are we looking at adding another $1,000 to the overall price for a second set of tires? Since it’s got pressure monitoring, will we need to buy extra wheels as well? > > Keep in mind that though we’re in NY, there are only (generally) five to seven snows a year, mostly lasting a day or two before the roads are clear (though some of the thought behind AWD is to be there for parking lots, road shoulders, etc.). Do they go on December through March? How many years/miles do they typically last? > > Also, given that there are two drive-ins in the area, fold-flat, queen-sized bed areas are very important. Er, assuming we get a babysitter. I’m definitely not typical because of where I live and the snow we get. I use four wheel drive roughly half the year (It’s not full time AWD, I have a Pathfinder). That’s every day half of the year. Anyway, I have snow tires on my Pathfinder. My Wife has snows on her Jeep. Since winters are so long, we leave them on all year. We buy new tires every two seasons or about 30 thousand miles. Personally, with only 5-7 snows a year, I think you would be fine with AWD and All Seasons. I would do a lot of shopping around though. Too bad they don’t tell you what kind of tire it comes with. I would call a dealer. Perhaps there is an option. Anyway, My Pathfinder came with crap tires to start. I just dealt with it. The only good thing about those tires was that they wore out pretty quickly (BFG Rugged Trails). The tire pressure monitor is actually part of the valve stem. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minivan-or-suv/555354/43 "2010-09-30T16:27:06Z")
BTW, I’m still baffled why there are so few (just the one) AWD option for the minivan. If it seems like a fairly advantageous direction, why aren’t other minivans offering it? I guess this is a marketing/economics question, but the range is heavily lopsided. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minivan-or-suv/555354/44 "2010-09-30T16:49:03Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > BTW, I’m still baffled why there are so few (just the one) AWD option for the minivan. If it seems like a fairly advantageous direction, why aren’t other minivans offering it? I guess this is a marketing/economics question, but the range is heavily lopsided. Two reasons: 1. Most minivan shoppers are looking for cheap, cheap cheap. Toyota and Honda are the two makes who have managed to sell on merit and not on price, so they can afford to offer more expensive options. Even though the Sienna and Odyssey are built on platforms for which AWD is readily available (Sienna is built on the Camry/Highlander/Venza platform, and the Odyssey on the Accord/Pilot/Ridgeline platform), actually implementing it adds cost and complexity to even the non-AWD models. That is to say, all of your FWD models go down the assembly line with beefed up unibodies and a bunch of extra bolt holes for an AWD system when only 20% will need it. Honda is much more conservative when it comes to model changes than Toyota, so they don’t offer it here, despite the fact that they could probably do so profitably. Other makes that have to compete on price don’t want to spend the money on an option that few people need, and only slightly fewer will actually pay money for. 1. Dodge can upsell you on a Durango if you really want AWD. It’s thousands more and SUV SUV SUV SUV SUV SIGN HERE FOR TESTOSTERONE!!! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minivan-or-suv/555354/45 "2010-09-30T16:52:00Z")
That pretty much nailed it. The vast majority of buyers don’t need or want four wheel drive, so the vast majority of cars don’t come with it. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minivan-or-suv/555354/46 "2010-09-30T18:16:33Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > What about snow tires on an AWD? Is that done? The Sienna’s [brochure](http://www.toyota.com/byt4/2011/sienna/en/condensed_ebro.pdf?zip=12721) says that it takes P235/55RF18 run-flat tires. Are we looking at adding another $1,000 to the overall price for a second set of tires? Since it’s got pressure monitoring, will we need to buy extra wheels as well? > > Keep in mind that though we’re in NY, there are only (generally) five to seven snows a year, mostly lasting a day or two before the roads are clear (though some of the thought behind AWD is to be there for parking lots, road shoulders, etc.). Do they go on December through March? How many years/miles do they typically last? > > Also, given that there are two drive-ins in the area, fold-flat, queen-sized bed areas are very important. Er, assuming we get a babysitter. You don’t have to buy extra wheels, but I’d recommend it. I own a car and a crossover. The car has a separate set of wheels with snow tires. I switch those with the regular wheels/tires usually around Thanksgiving and leave them on until March (I’m in WI). I don’t think I’d bother with snow tires if I had to have them remounted at a tire shop each season. The rims with the all-season tires were an upgrade and the snow tires are on the factory steel rims, so another advantage to having a separate set is that you can keep your nicer wheels out of the snow/salt, if that matters. I’ve had mine for three seasons (going on 4) with little wear, but that vehicle only gets about 15-20 miles a day put on it with an occasional long trip. I mark them when I take them off and rotate each season. No TPMS (too old). I’ve looked into snow tires for the crossover but would want to buy rims, too, and just haven’t wanted to spend the money. The crossover has a TPMS and from what I’ve read online, most people don’t bother with it for the snow tires and just live with having the warning light on for the winter. The light resets once you get the regular wheels back on. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minivan-or-suv/555354/47 "2010-09-30T19:45:21Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > > [@Balthisar](#): > > > > Well, no, if it’s car based, then it’s not an SUV; it’s a crossover. Maybe sometimes marketers call them SUV’s, but it’s like saying a Honda Ridgeline is a truck (it looks like one, but it’s not). Tahoes, Expeditions, etc., are most certainly _not_ “car-based.” > > This seems to be either a distinction you’ve made entirely by yourself or a far from widely accepted distinction. … > In fact, the vast majority, if not all, vehicles in the compact SUV class are car based. It’s not like a few marketing people at play here. All the trade press is in agreement. I’m sure there are a few other people who would like to make the same distinction you have but nobody else seems to. Hmmm…. I was all ready to challenge you on this, but a fairly detailed look into several manufacturers websites (and cross-referencing the platform details) would seem to indicate that you’re absolutely right. I’m not a marketing guy, but I _am_ a body-in-white guy, so I guess the actual industry terms don’t carry out into the public at large. I will stick to my guns about the term “car based,” though. A unibody doesn’t doesn’t necessarily imply “car-based.” The aforementioned Ridgeline, for example, was never based on a car. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minivan-or-suv/555354/48 "2010-09-30T21:39:09Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > BTW, I’m still baffled why there are so few (just the one) AWD option for the minivan. If it seems like a fairly advantageous direction, why aren’t other minivans offering it? I guess this is a marketing/economics question, but the range is heavily lopsided. It sorta seems that since everyone is offering the cross overs, thats become the AWD line besides SUV’s and trucks. Surprises me too. While I understand that families and especially new families might have more limited budgets, I would think that the safety factor of AWD would carry more weight when it comes to buying. ---
**Author:** ![zlexiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecae2f/32.png) [@zlexiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zlexiss)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minivan-or-suv/555354/49 "2010-10-01T06:54:36Z")
Sorry, was on the phone and didn’t want to write in detail. Yes, AWD cars will typically be able to acclerate better and climb steeper hills then 2WD cars. But when it comes to stopping and turning AWD poses no advantages at all - traction (rubber to the road) is everything. This is borne out in testing such as done [here](http://www.caranddriver.com/features/archive/winter-traction_test_what_price_traction_-feature) by Car and Driver: > [@](#): > > Four-wheel drive helps get cars going. When it comes time to brake or change direction on low-traction surfaces, the extra mass of the driveline becomes more of a detriment. Folks who live in hilly places that get snow may need the climbing capability of four-wheel drive. If it snows a lot in those hilly places, they should probably invest in winter tires, too. Even flat-landers who happen to have steep driveways may wish to consider a four-wheel-driver. > > Almost everyone else will most likely be better served by using winter tires. Acceleration takes longer, but in an emergency, the handling behavior and improved lateral grip of two-wheel drive and winter tires – in the slippery stuff – are the safer bets. That aside, I never got the people who said FWD is better than RWD in the snow. Spending my winters in Buffalo, New Hampshire, and Pittsburgh, I never had a problem driving either type of car in slippery weather. My basic rule: You can do 3 things - accelerate, brake, or turn. In snowy weather, only do one at a time. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minivan-or-suv/555354/50 "2010-10-01T13:22:21Z")
Sounds like you only get a moderate amount of snow, so I’d vote minivan. My parents have a fully loaded 2007 Sienna and they love it. Its got the backup camera, plush leather seats, whatever, its really decked out. We own a 2006 Grand Caravan Special Edition SXT (the last year for the egg-shaped snout, now its more boxy-shaped) and its been a great vehicle. We already have 100,000 miles on it as we travel a lot with the kids. There’s 5 of us and long trips are no problem. The aforementioned stow and go seating is a wonderful invention. You can in fact fit 4x8 sheets of plywood or drywall in the back with all four rear seats (last seat is a split bench) in the down position. I’ve driven this thing in the snow plenty of times with regular tires (its FWD with traction control) and never had any issues. The weight of the vehicle keeps it pretty stable. I wish I could say the same for my tiny Scion Xa! To me the biggest issue people have with driving in the snow is that they _go too fast_. The DVD player is awesome, the newer Caravans can be had with two DVD players I believe. Go drive a Grand Caravan and tell us what you think. Its not as refined a vehicle as the Sienna (and probably not the Odyssey either) but its less expensive, too. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minivan-or-suv/555354/51 "2010-10-01T15:11:44Z")
> [@zlexiss](#): > > …That aside, I never got the people who said FWD is better than RWD in the snow. Spending my winters in Buffalo, New Hampshire, and Pittsburgh, I never had a problem driving either type of car in slippery weather… Not sure what kind of car you had but my Camaro (RWD) was probably the worst snow car I have ever driven. Even in just rain it was easy to spin the rear tires when starting, I always had to be careful not to give it too much gas . ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minivan-or-suv/555354/52 "2010-10-01T15:21:50Z")
I thought RWD was problematic in the snow because of the lack of weight on the drive wheels. Anyone remember keeping sandbags in their trunk? FWD seemed to become more available in the 80s (or is that perception bias?), and the difference was pretty stark. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minivan-or-suv/555354/53 "2010-10-01T15:33:12Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > I thought RWD was problematic in the snow because of the lack of weight on the drive wheels. Anyone remember keeping sandbags in their trunk? FWD seemed to become more available in the 80s (or is that perception bias?), and the difference was pretty stark. Front wheel drive has been common since the Mini in 1959. It didn’t really take off in the US until the CAFE standards were introduced in 1978, though. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minivan-or-suv/555354/54 "2010-10-01T15:59:06Z")
I have a 2004 Toyota Sienna, the first year they came out with their wider model. We didn’t get the AWD, and I regret it. It is horrible in the snow. I love the space in the Sienna. Plenty of room for luggage and kids and their friends and the dog and the grandparents. I’ve had zero issues with the engine or transmission. It’s still running good after 7 years which is kind of a bummer because I can’t justify getting a new car when the old one runs so well. Get leather seats if you have kids. Being able to wipe up after them is a real plus. I’d upgrade the sound system if I had to do it all over again. Don’t skimp on getting the best brakes because you’ll need them. The van is really heavy and I routinely skid accelerating and on the rare occasions that I have to stop on a dime. I’ve eaten through three sets of tires already and the van only has 55k miles on it. They are notorious for being tire eaters. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minivan-or-suv/555354/55 "2010-10-01T16:11:35Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > … > I’ve eaten through three sets of tires already and the van only has 55k miles on it. They are notorious for being tire eaters. Your van in particular? or minivans in general? Our Caravan got maybe 3 new sets of tires in the 10 years we owned it (125K miles), so tire-eating wasn’t a problem, but that’s of course just a sample size of one :). It had plenty of other flaws to make up for it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minivan-or-suv/555354/56 "2010-10-01T16:40:57Z")
Vans in general. Anything weighing 2.5 tons is going to eat its tires. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minivan-or-suv/555354.md?page=2)