# Minneapolis is Burning...? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 28, 2020, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589 "2020-05-28T07:45:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/301 "2020-05-31T01:48:14Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Well, that’s a tactic that’s been used many times to disrupt protests. I don’t know if that’s what happened last night, but it could be. We shouldn’t let it stifle our voices or “prevent” us from raising them in anger. > > I’m not saying to stop protesting; I’m saying that staying in an area where group violence is happening, whether you’re going to participate in the violence or not, is no longer peaceful protest and is arguably less _effective_ protest. -Context matters. > > Maybe “go home” is too strong, but also understand that there was no large unaffected public area in Atlanta last night where the majority of peaceful protesters could have continued. Staying there endangered the protesters, residents who couldn’t leave and the cops (who had been under orders -which they executed well- to ‘give the protesters room’ to demonstrate). And the crowd also provided cover for the few perpetrating the violence. > > Atlanta has had its share of bad policing. But I don’t think the rioting here yesterday was ‘the language of the unheard’ as it was in Minneapolis. So, you’re not saying to stop protesting, but you are saying that there was no place for them to continue on protesting, so they should go home and stop protesting. I don’t see how context can help with that. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/302 "2020-05-31T01:59:19Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > First a virus to keep us inside. Then curfews. I wonder what’s next? Anti-police protests in dozens of cities. You may have heard. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/303 "2020-05-31T02:03:04Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > First a virus to keep us inside. Then curfews. I wonder what’s next? You’re clearly pushing conspiracy nonsense. You can’t pretend you were just quoting Facebook this time. I wish there was someone in charge calling all the shots. Then things wouldn’t be so perilous. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/304 "2020-05-31T02:14:07Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Anti-police protests in dozens of cities. You may have heard. Protest four blocks from where I live… San Diego is a conservative “law and order” town, but there’s a hefty protest. They’ve gotten up onto the freeway and are blocking it. I can actually smell tear gas (very, very faintly…thank ghu.) Helicopters overhead are ordering crowds to disperse. On TV, the protest is very diverse: black, white, hispanic, looks about equal proportions. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/305 "2020-05-31T02:24:33Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I wish there was someone in charge calling all the shots. Then things wouldn’t be so perilous. The idjit in charge is calling the shots. The problem is that he always calls the wrong shot. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/306 "2020-05-31T02:26:57Z")
I think the police should try an experiment. Stop killing black guys for a while, if they can. Just for a while, and see how it goes. See if they prefer the results to what we have now. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/307 "2020-05-31T02:33:56Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > So, you’re not saying to stop protesting, but you are saying that there was no place for them to continue on protesting, so they should go home and stop protesting. > > I don’t see how context can help with that. I’m saying stop attending the protest that has stopped being a peaceful protest and become a riot if you want to be a peaceful protestor. There will be other opportunities to voice your anger/show your support/deliver your message/do whatever the fuck you intended by peacefully protesting. But the opportunity to do that _right now_ has been taken from you by the rioters. Staying in a riot doesn’t make you a _really really committed_ protester, it makes you part of the riot. Some riots may need to happen. Joining one in a city where the leadership and law enforcement are visibly respecting the protest is fucking stupid. If you don’t see how context matters to the effectiveness of crowd behavior in support of the message of a given protest, then you’re not nearly as clever as you think you’re being in your self righteous little snark post. Piss off. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/308 "2020-05-31T02:49:56Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Anti-police protests in dozens of cities. You may have heard. That’s what I Was referring to, there’s a curfew in Cleveland because of the protests ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/309 "2020-05-31T02:52:26Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You’re clearly pushing conspiracy nonsense. You can’t pretend you were just quoting Facebook this time. > > I wish there was someone in charge calling all the shots. Then things wouldn’t be so perilous. Not pushing anything. It’s just one crisis after another. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/310 "2020-05-31T03:03:44Z")
This one was way more preventable. I mean this one, you almost had to make it happen. Not you personally, you know. ---
**Author:** ![MN\_Maenad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MN\_Maenad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MN_Maenad)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/311 "2020-05-31T03:29:12Z")
> [@pool](#): > > Anyone else watching this, thinking there is something different about these riots? I get a sense they may go on for quite some time longer than expected and maybe they will grow even larger. The main difference is that groups like the Boogaloo Bois, Three Percenters, and other anti-government groups are involved. They want to incite violent confrontation with the cops and start a second civil war. Those seen by locals are usually well-armed and have been seen using a variety of weapons and explosives. There’s also been a lot of graffiti in the Twin Cities of ACAB - All Cops Are Bastards. I’m forgetting which group tends to use that tag. > **[The Boogaloo Movement Is Not What You Think - bellingcat](https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2020/05/27/the-boogaloo-movement-is-not-what-you-think/)** > > Translations:English (UK)Русский (Россия)On May 26th, crowds gathered in Minneapolis, Minnesota, to protest the death of 46-year-old George Floyd at the hands of the city’s police department. Floyd was black. Many of the protesters were people of... When assholes like that come to your town, they don’t stop until… well, I don’t know what’s going to stop them. They’re like fucking roaches. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/312 "2020-05-31T04:00:35Z")
If they had arrested the police involved in stead of just firing them, this could’ve all been avoided. Riots do nothing, except spread the virus better. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/313 "2020-05-31T04:45:47Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Doesn’t posse comitatus prevent the use of US military for civil policing? Strongly constrain is more accurate than prevents. There are exceptions. The big exception is the National Guard operating under state direction. The are still US military. Posse Comitatus only constrains federal troops not state troops. Governors can and are already using dual status troops in their state role. There is some capacity for the federal government to make money available to states to pay Guardsmen, if the state chooses, for certain types of emergencies (like most of the coronavirus response troops) under the Stafford Act. Those troops still operate under state control and fall under their state code of military justice. For federal troops the exception is the [Insurrection Act of 1807](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurrection_Act). The breakdown chart of the law at Wikipedia is pretty good. Just ignore all the pieces about the 2007 amendment. It was repealed in 2008. The easiest route to using federal troops is if the state requests more troops. It is a higher hurdle in the law to use them if the state does not request them. **HMS Irruncible** did not quite get the standard right for that. Quoting the law > [@](#): > > The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy, if it– > > (1) so hinders the execution of the laws of that State, and of the United States within the State, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or > (2) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws. The Insurrection Act was used by the elder Bush to deploy federal troops to quell the Rodney King related riots in Los Angeles in 1992. So yes, it really is legal to use the US military to respond to riots. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/314 "2020-05-31T05:41:57Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I wish there was someone in charge calling all the shots. Then things wouldn’t be so perilous. Organizers tend to end up in prison or killed, one way or another; law enforcement goes to great lengths to ensure that. So when people start lashing out like this, there’s nobody in a position to be a leader. > [@pool](#): > > Anyone else watching this, thinking there is something different about these riots? I get a sense they may go on for quite some time longer than expected and maybe they will grow even larger. Trump whipping things up, the pandemic making people afraid and out of work and the police all across the nation acting just brutal enough to enrage but not brutal enough to terrify are all coming together to make the unrest a lot worse than it would otherwise be. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/315 "2020-05-31T07:35:08Z")
Now we’ve got a state of emergency in the whole LA County, not just downtown and West Hollywood. We have firefighters in riot gear. Might as well start the lockdown over again. I’m expecting our numbers to double next week. :rolleyes: :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/316 "2020-05-31T07:37:23Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > First a virus to keep us inside. Then curfews. I wonder what’s next? Armored police with tanks going through Minneapolis neighborhoods ordering people to leave their yards and even their porches and get inside…and shooting at those that don’t comply fast enough. [=68.ARDZMcVqNkNc6GF5uh3QgvMitcSNdUJZIgNW5tGsprw2MyorSWuxik\_YqmLOUcJQlIY-ECeWE4DJWHGJqRWbNWwMlkR-7IIoKmkiexw4Z9pts1LXnMamDko3VYPzpzl5SvUEgEomf8yphJjczJO5wcS3AYJ3j68A7MiHOArS8G8BQXL5fGnLIJL8DNvuu-XYngrZlQ2q58yZQ3NS\_-EhRl\_Lqjba2AstOgA-peNy9Es6IYpj9batUfW54VhafuihtF1bYSNfdrZL8qptHXYCb2evfG-YXw\_EBKWdhiEAPLk\_wYtGiQPksBZla5G8oOFsEhdTOEBajWL-7UeEo7mwlvw\_N7vbDzt6bEjwgVCyrAP9VGKMMjPPUXOt2EK\_iGAZDlrP"]Link]([Minneapolis Police Shoot At People Standing On Their Porch | #BREAKING Police shoot at people as they stand on their porch in Minneapolis. WTF is wrong with these cops. They have lost their damn minds. 🤬 | By Conservatives Are Destroying Our FutureFacebook](https://www.facebook.com/ConservativesAreDestroyingOurFuture/videos/590113974964258/? __tn__ =kCH-R&eid=ARCjZZ5-jgKvVmz2C2mo52ayxgWltmHEC5W_LpJ_BQPiU8coDMb7rUeodAT0nv68pe7tdxfgmwKJve36&hc_ref=ARQT6Kgbpd5waensNFlCYMFgrnPSNKsJkj4NbqllNKhOkJSF71tCPwn9YGVUDVsqRwg&fref=nf& __xts__ )[0) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/317 "2020-05-31T07:52:19Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Armored police with tanks going through Minneapolis neighborhoods ordering people to leave their yards and even their porches and get inside…and shooting at those that don’t comply fast enough. [=68.ARDZMcVqNkNc6GF5uh3QgvMitcSNdUJZIgNW5tGsprw2MyorSWuxik\_YqmLOUcJQlIY-ECeWE4DJWHGJqRWbNWwMlkR-7IIoKmkiexw4Z9pts1LXnMamDko3VYPzpzl5SvUEgEomf8yphJjczJO5wcS3AYJ3j68A7MiHOArS8G8BQXL5fGnLIJL8DNvuu-XYngrZlQ2q58yZQ3NS\_-EhRl\_Lqjba2AstOgA-peNy9Es6IYpj9batUfW54VhafuihtF1bYSNfdrZL8qptHXYCb2evfG-YXw\_EBKWdhiEAPLk\_wYtGiQPksBZla5G8oOFsEhdTOEBajWL-7UeEo7mwlvw\_N7vbDzt6bEjwgVCyrAP9VGKMMjPPUXOt2EK\_iGAZDlrP"]Link]([Minneapolis Police Shoot At People Standing On Their Porch | #BREAKING Police shoot at people as they stand on their porch in Minneapolis. WTF is wrong with these cops. They have lost their damn minds. 🤬 | By Conservatives Are Destroying Our FutureFacebook](https://www.facebook.com/ConservativesAreDestroyingOurFuture/videos/590113974964258/? __tn__ =kCH-R&eid=ARCjZZ5-jgKvVmz2C2mo52ayxgWltmHEC5W_LpJ_BQPiU8coDMb7rUeodAT0nv68pe7tdxfgmwKJve36&hc_ref=ARQT6Kgbpd5waensNFlCYMFgrnPSNKsJkj4NbqllNKhOkJSF71tCPwn9YGVUDVsqRwg&fref=nf& __xts__ )[0) Apparently it is happening in [the Whittier neighborhood of Minneapolis.](https://news.yahoo.com/video-appears-show-nat-l-043641988.html) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/318 "2020-05-31T07:57:05Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > The looting doesn’t bother me as much as starting fires, since that puts the lives of firefighters at risk, doesn’t it? Fires put everyone’s life at risk, don’t they? > [@Lamoral](#): > > Are these fires the type that can be extinguished by shooting water at them from the truck, or do the firemen actually have to go inside the structure? Probably depends on how long they burn before the firemen show up. > [@Lamoral](#): > > I’m not any kind of expert on fire, I don’t know how big of a risk these fires are to the firemen, but that’s one thing I’m ambivalent about, at any rate. Other than that I support anything that sends a message to the government that cops can’t murder with impunity. If they poke the bear, the riots are the bear biting back. I wouldn’t go out and participate in a riot, but it’s a very understandable reaction, to me. That’s pretty much my take on it. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/319 "2020-05-31T07:58:59Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > First a virus to keep us inside. Then curfews. I wonder what’s next? The 17-year cicadas are due to emerge any day now… ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/320 "2020-05-31T08:34:29Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > The looting doesn’t bother me as much as starting fires, since that puts the lives of firefighters at risk, doesn’t it? Are these fires the type that can be extinguished by shooting water at them from the truck, or do the firemen actually have to go inside the structure? I’m not any kind of expert on fire, I don’t know how big of a risk these fires are to the firemen, but that’s one thing I’m ambivalent about, at any rate. Firefighting to save a structure is based on fast response times. Typical residential structures wont survive a fire thats been burning for more than 5-10 min. Commercial occupancies will have sprinkler systems that give them more time. Even then, many sprinkler systems are not capable of stopping a fire only slowing it down. Since there is a massive backlog of fires to fight, many of them are burning for hours before FD has a chance to attack. you dont do interior attack on fully involved structures you just “surround and drown” hopefully limiting further spread to adjacent properties. With standalone buildings that have already been burning for 30+ minutes, that are not close enough to start other fires, letting them burn is pretty much the best option under the circumstances. Move on to something you might be able to save. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589.md?page=17)