# Minneapolis is Burning...? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 28, 2020, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589 "2020-05-28T07:45:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/121 "2020-05-29T14:09:52Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Peaceful protests should be handled peacefully. Voilent riots should be handled violently. You start wrecking things and burning down stores? Load firetrucks with tear gas, soak rioters at will. That may be true, and that may be a calculated risk that some people are willing to take. Years ago I probably would have posted something similar - that rioting will only make matters worse. And in several regards, you’re probably correct - it will. But sometimes it is the only way a group of people can be heard. Sometimes, even in democracies, people have to make it clear that they are not going to just cooperate, and that they are going to be ungovernable and difficult to manage until they get some fucking respect. I don’t believe violent protests are the go-to, but mass demonstration is the key to getting change in a social contract. It is what authoritarians fear the most. And make no mistake about it: police departments in the United States have become agents of authoritarianism. They absolutely must be confronted and checked, and if a few stores get burned as a result of incidental hooliganism, then that’s the price we pay for disparities that exist within our system. I would also point out that most of the people at the rally were peaceful (I know you’re not necessarily disputing that, but it needs saying). ---
**Author:** ![Oglomott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oglomott/32/3543_2.png) [@Oglomott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oglomott)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/122 "2020-05-29T14:11:11Z")
I can’t believe there are people on here advocating looting and rioting. Seriously? I’m sure the people I saw on TV running out of a Target store with their arms (and shopping carts) loaded with merchandise were justified. :dubious: How would you feel as a small business owner if YOUR business was torched? ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/123 "2020-05-29T14:22:01Z")
> [@Oglomott](#): > > I can’t believe there are people on here advocating looting and rioting. Seriously? I’m sure the people I saw on TV running out of a Target store with their arms (and shopping carts) loaded with merchandise were justified. :dubious: > > How would you feel as a small business owner if YOUR business was torched? How would you feel if YOUR brother was murdered by police? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/124 "2020-05-29T14:26:12Z")
> [@Oglomott](#): > > I can’t believe there are people on here advocating looting and rioting. Seriously? I’m sure the people I saw on TV running out of a Target store with their arms (and shopping carts) loaded with merchandise were justified. :dubious: > > How would you feel as a small business owner if YOUR business was torched? Target is a small business? ---
**Author:** ![Oglomott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oglomott/32/3543_2.png) [@Oglomott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oglomott)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/125 "2020-05-29T14:36:36Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > How would you feel if YOUR brother was murdered by police? The people taking stuff from the Target didn’t have a relative murdered by anyone. Answer my question minus the misdirection. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/126 "2020-05-29T14:41:48Z")
Someone bombed a marketplace in Iraq? Better torch the Grand Canyon! Someone got off with a light sentence? That totally justifies moving to Canada and trashing Vancouver! (That was sarcasm). ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/127 "2020-05-29T14:51:51Z")
> [@Oglomott](#): > > The people taking stuff from the Target didn’t have a relative murdered by anyone. > > Answer my question minus the misdirection. With all the years of racism and police brutality in the US, you say this with such confidence. ETA: Fuck off, racist troll. I dunno who’s sock you are, but fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/128 "2020-05-29T14:56:36Z")
Looting and arson are never ok, and solve nothing. But the idea that looting and arson are “the other side” relative to police brutality, and the real fact that being a black male in the USA is a hazardous condition, is ridiculous. Looting and arson are the fringe, if related at all, of the reaction to police brutality. If the whole protest is to be painted by that brush, then it is also time to incarcerate anyone who is or has ever been a police officer. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/129 "2020-05-29T14:57:00Z")
> [@Oglomott](#): > > The people taking stuff from the Target didn’t have a relative murdered by anyone. > > Answer my question minus the misdirection. The misdirection was your labeling Target a “small business”. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/130 "2020-05-29T14:58:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The misdirection was your labeling Target a “small business”. Is this czarcasm? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/131 "2020-05-29T15:00:07Z")
I won’t defend rioting, arson, or looting. But it’s what you get when you don’t have the rule of law. The Minneapolis police, the ones who are supposed to be upholding the rule of law, have decided to instead dispense with it entirely. The result is inevitable. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/132 "2020-05-29T15:01:51Z")
[Mississippi Mayor Defends The Officers Who Killed George Floyd](https://www.bet.com/news/national/2020/05/28/mississippi-mayor-defends-the-officers-who-killed-george-floyd.html) > [@Petal](#): > > I didn’t see anything unreasonable. If you can say you can’t breathe, you’re breathing. Most likely that man died of overdose or heart attack. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/133 "2020-05-29T15:03:05Z")
> [@Isosleepy](#): > > Looting and arson are never ok, and solve nothing. But the idea that looting and arson are “the other side” relative to police brutality, and the real fact that being a black male in the USA is a hazardous condition, is ridiculous. > Looting and arson are the fringe, if related at all, of the reaction to police brutality. If the whole protest is to be painted by that brush, then it is also time to incarcerate anyone who is or has ever been a police officer. I’d think that if there is ever a place to point-blank condemn looting and arson without having to specify that most of the people in or on the fringes of the protest are not doing that, and that there are lot of other things that need attention in America, it would be in a thread entitled “Minneapolis is Burning…?” ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/134 "2020-05-29T15:06:01Z")
There is no question in my mind that there is a significant culture problem with the police. It begins with an “us vs them” mentality, when of course us=them. It gets exacerbated by the “come home alive at all cost”. Of course officer safety is important, but in training and culture it has become important to the point that no other consideration has _any_ weight. This is flat wrong. There rarely are consequences. When mistakes are made, they need to be acknowledged and addressed. Instead they are routinely whitewashed. Next time there are local elections, look at what your candidates did in cases like that. If they looked away, don’t give them your vote. And even if there are consequences, often the bad apples are hired elsewhere. This needs to become impossible. Unfortunately, law enforcement is a profession with a propensity to attract applicants uniquely unsuited to the job. It is the professional equivalent to heroin: supreme care must be taken when allowing people to enter the profession. And when you have 10 bad cops, and 1000 good cops, but the good cops hold the “thin blue line”, then you have 1010 bad cops. ---
**Author:** ![Oglomott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oglomott/32/3543_2.png) [@Oglomott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oglomott)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/135 "2020-05-29T15:06:04Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > With all the years of racism and police brutality in the US, you say this with such confidence. > > ETA: Fuck off, racist troll. I dunno who’s sock you are, but fuck off. Please respond to what part of my post was inaccurate. What’s your solution to end police brutality and racism? If it was easy, it would have been done a long time ago. And I am not a sock, whatever that is. The “misdirection” I referred to was instead of responding about what was justified about removing merchandise from Target, the response was how would I like to see my brother murdered. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/136 "2020-05-29T15:10:34Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I’d think that if there is ever a place to point-blank condemn looting and arson without having to specify that most of the people in or on the fringes of the protest are not doing that, and that there are lot of other things that need attention in America, it would be in a thread entitled “Minneapolis is Burning…?” I think there is never a good time to taint an entire movement or group of people by ascribing to them the actions and motives of a small fringe (and possibly unaffiliated) group, unless the group as a whole embraces or tolerates this fringe. Regardless of thread title. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/137 "2020-05-29T15:13:35Z")
> [@Oglomott](#): > > The people taking stuff from the Target didn’t have a relative murdered by anyone. > > Answer my question minus the misdirection. Your store isn’t being looted. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/138 "2020-05-29T15:13:57Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > [Mississippi Mayor Defends The Officers Who Killed George Floyd](https://www.bet.com/news/national/2020/05/28/mississippi-mayor-defends-the-officers-who-killed-george-floyd.html) Whaaaaat, in MISSISSIPPIIIIII??? Nooooooooooooooooo…:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/139 "2020-05-29T15:23:24Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Is this czarcasm? I don’t think anyone’s hijacked his account, and it sure sounds like him. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589/140 "2020-05-29T15:27:37Z")
> [@Oglomott](#): > > The people taking stuff from the Target didn’t have a relative murdered by anyone. > > Answer my question minus the misdirection. It’s not that people justify or defend rioting per se. What people are defending is the idea that members of a community that has comparatively less socioeconomic and political power have voice, and have the power to end police brutality. There was a lot of destruction in the wake of the Rodney King South Central L.A. riots of 1992. The immediate aftermath of the rioting was toxic for all who were impacted, including the Black community in that area. But there was also a greater level of awareness. There were civil rights charges and convictions for starters. There was also greater attention to and investment in those communities. There was more of a commitment to change police culture in some communities. There was greater awareness of police brutality. The battle is never completely over. And despite gains that were made in the intervening years between 1992 and, say, 2010, the reality is that there’s been some occasional backsliding - there always will be. Nobody wants rioting. Nobody wants to have mass firings of police officers or to completely discourage police activity in dangerous neighborhoods. But this is not an all-or-nothing proposition: the police can do their jobs without having to brutalize people and everyone, including police departments, knows that. If people in positions of power refuse to hear the complaints of those who are being governed, then the peasants will revolt. It’s that simple. Racism is a learned behavior, but what’s not learned is an appreciation and desire for fairness. That’s hardwired. We’re born with a fairness meter, and we know when shit’s not right. And we’re hardwired not to tolerate it for long once that awareness kicks in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minneapolis-is-burning/854589.md?page=8)