# Minnesota-Ontario border question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 21, 2011, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913 "2011-12-21T03:01:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/1 "2011-12-21T03:01:36Z")
I was looking at the US-Canada border from International Falls, MN to Lake Superior just northeast of Grand Portage, MN and I got to wondering: How much of that border is over land? I know at least a small section must be, as the border crosses the watershed which separates the waterflows to the Arctic ocean on one side and the Great Lakes on the other, but I couldn’t quite tell just how many portages or land borders made up this twisty international boundary, especially as it wound its way through Voyageurs National Park. Any good links to decent maps showing this particular boundary? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/2 "2011-12-21T03:40:47Z")
You can just go to Google maps and look at the satellite view of the border. You can blow it up and see the numerous lakes in detail, and there are a lot of little landbridges there. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/3 "2011-12-21T03:46:54Z")
The border up there is all lakes and river. A good chunk of that area is the Boundary Waters Canoe Area (BWCA), a 1.1 million acre wilderness area with awesome canoeing (portaging) fishing and camping. On the Canada side is Quetico Provincial Park, a similar but more rugged\* 475,782 hectare (1.175 million acre) wilderness. - BWCA has iron fire grates and a plastic pit toilet at established camp sites. Quetico doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/4 "2011-12-21T03:50:18Z")
As fixed by the Webster-Ashburton Treaty in 1842, the border is supposed to run > [@](#): > > to a point north of Ile Royale in said Lake, one hundred yards to the north and east of Ile Chapeau, which last mentioned Island lies near the northeastern point of Ile Royale, where the line marked by the Commissioners terminates; and from the last mentioned point, southwesterly, through the middle of the Sound between Ile Royale and the northwestern mainland, to the mouth of Pigeon river, and up the said river to, and through, the north and south Fowl Lakes, to the Lakes of the **height of land** between Lake Superior and the Lake of the Woods; thence, along the water-communication to Lake Saisaginaga, and through that Lake; thence, to and through Cypress Lake, Lac du Bois Blanc, Lac la Croix, Little Vermilion Lake, and Lake Namecan, and through the several smaller lakes, straights, or streams, connecting the lakes here mentioned, to that point in Lac la Pluie, or Rainy Lake, at the Chaudiere Falls, from which the Commissioners traced the line to the most northwestern point of the Lake of the Woods,-thence, along the said line to the said most northwestern point, being in latitude 49° 23’55" north, and in longitude 95°14’38" west from the Observatory at Greenwich; thence, according to existing treaties, due south to its intersection with the 49th parallel of north latitude, and along that parallel to the Rocky Mountains. The “height of land” bolded above is the [Height of Land Portage](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Height_of_Land_Portage). If I’m not mistaken (and I may well be), this is the only land border between the U.S. and Canada between Quebec and Manitoba; all the rest is via rivers and lakes. Granted, there may be portages involved other than this one if you were to canoe up said rivers and lakes, but this is the one that crosses the watershed line. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/5 "2011-12-21T04:45:14Z")
[Text](http://www.archive.org/stream/minnesotasnorthe00wincrich/minnesotasnorthe00wincrich_djvu.txt) of a book tracing the history of the northern boundary of Minnesota. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/6 "2011-12-21T05:25:21Z")
I always chuckle when I’m in that area to see all the unguarded border, that any terrorist in a canoe and a flannel shirt could paddle across. But they’d be thwarted by the sign that’s posted on the back road that’s on the American side of the border: \*Visitors to the U.S. should check in at the Border Patrol office in Grand Marais, MN. \* The Border Patrol office is a small cabin at the end of Main Street. It’s usually closed. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/7 "2011-12-21T13:25:54Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > You can just go to Google maps and look at the satellite view of the border. You can blow it up and see the numerous lakes in detail, and there are a lot of little landbridges there. Tried that. The resolution is not so hot at some critical areas. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/8 "2011-12-21T13:28:30Z")
> [@MikeS](#): > > As fixed by the Webster-Ashburton Treaty in 1842, the border is supposed to runThe “height of land” bolded above is the [Height of Land Portage](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Height_of_Land_Portage). If I’m not mistaken (and I may well be), this is the only land border between the U.S. and Canada between Quebec and Manitoba; all the rest is via rivers and lakes. Granted, there may be portages involved other than this one if you were to canoe up said rivers and lakes, but this is the one that crosses the watershed line. Yeah, I’d found that article too, and thought maybe that was the only land border. But looking at Google Maps shows some other possible land border areas. Unfortunately their resolution failed me, and their plain map versions were equivocal too. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/9 "2011-12-21T13:30:16Z")
If you are looking for border trivia, there is a small chunk of land, a peninsula on Lake of the Woods, just east of Manitoba, that is actually US territory north of the 49th parallel. To drive there (if you can) you would have to go through Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/10 "2011-12-21T13:31:30Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > [Text](http://www.archive.org/stream/minnesotasnorthe00wincrich/minnesotasnorthe00wincrich_djvu.txt) of a book tracing the history of the northern boundary of Minnesota. Thanks, Poly. I’ll have to check it out at home. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/11 "2011-12-21T13:32:33Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > If you are looking for border trivia, there is a small chunk of land, a peninsula on Lake of the Woods, just east of Manitoba, that is actually US territory north of the 49th parallel. To drive there (if you can) you would have to go through Canada. Yeah, Angle Inlet. Fun anomaly. Not as cool as the Kentucky Bend, but still up there, like Point Roberts and Kaskaskia. ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/12 "2011-12-21T13:36:44Z")
The Northwest Angle, I’ve been there. (I’ve also been to Key West, so I’ve been to the northernmost and southernmost points reachable by road in the continenental US). ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/13 "2011-12-21T13:41:22Z")
> [@Mdcastleman](#): > > The Northwest Angle, I’ve been there. (I’ve also been to Key West, so I’ve been to the northernmost and southernmost points reachable by road in the continenental US). Alaska’s not continenental, then? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/14 "2011-12-21T13:43:08Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Yeah, I’d found that article too, and thought maybe that was the only land border. But looking at Google Maps shows some other possible land border areas. Unfortunately their resolution failed me, and their plain map versions were equivocal too. My reading of the treaty would seem to imply that it is in fact the only land border—everything else in that section explicitly refers to lakes, rivers, and straits. If you really want a good source for hi-res maps, you could always download the appropriate topo maps from [The National Map](http://viewer.nationalmap.gov/viewer/). You can select the sections you want in the viewer and “order” them; you’ll then be sent an e-mail with links where you can download the PDFs. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/15 "2011-12-21T13:43:50Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > You can just go to Google maps and look at the satellite view of the border. You can blow it up and see the numerous lakes in detail, and there are a lot of little landbridges there. I read your post for comprehension this time. Yes, you’re right, there are visible land bridges in a few of the views. I wonder if they’re sometimes under water, by the looks of a few of them. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/16 "2011-12-21T15:14:02Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > I read your post for comprehension this time. Yes, you’re right, there are visible land bridges in a few of the views. I wonder if they’re sometimes under water, by the looks of a few of them. > > Thanks! It’s possible that most of them are bisected by small streams that mean they aren’t contiguous land areas, or as you say under water some of the time. Or maybe they’re just swamp, not quite land or water. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/17 "2011-12-21T16:48:56Z")
The easiest way to look at US topo maps is with the [ArcGIS Online Viewer.](http://www.arcgis.com/home/gallery.html) These are “slippy” maps that work the same way as Google or Bing maps, but offer a variety of basemaps, including a seamless set of US topos at various scales. Topos have the advantage of having been carefully edited by humans, whereas with Google Maps you never know whether the boundary dataset used was appropriate for the scale. Various themes get melded together by the computer without anyone checking for coincidence. ArcGIS Online offers several other options, including the topographic tiles brewed by Arc from various datasets that may be better than the state boundary dataset used by Google. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/18 "2011-12-22T00:19:14Z")
> [@MikeS](#): > > My reading of the treaty would seem to imply that it is in fact the only land border—everything else in that section explicitly refers to lakes, rivers, and straits. You can’t always go by the text of the treaty. Sometimes when the boundary is surveyed and monumented, the line described in the treaty will prove impractical or impossible, and it may be “clarified” by a later protocol, convention or annex. Or the monuments will be slightly inconsistent with the treaty, but both sides agree that the monuments define the boundary to avoid further disputes. According to the above-linked article on the Height of Land Portage, > [@](#): > > According to the Canada/US International Boundary Commission Ontario’s boundaries with the United States run 2700 kilometers on water and only about one kilometer on land. The 80-rod Height of Land Portage is a significant part of the land border; the remainder is along two other portages, Watap Portage (100 rods) a short distance to its east, and Swamp (or Monument) Portage (~ 72–80 rods) to the west in the BWCA and Quetico Provincial Park. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/19 "2011-12-22T01:41:30Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > According to the above-linked article on the Height of Land Portage, Aha! Thanks for that, and thanks to those providing links to close-up maps. I may pursue those on-line resources! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/20 "2011-12-22T02:04:15Z")
Using the ArcGIS site mentioned above, I’ve found more than just the 3 portages mentioned in the “Height of Land Portage” wiki article. Prairie Portage, Little Knife Portage, Carp Portage, South Lake Portage, Long Portage (which looks to be well over a mile long) plus at least 2 more unnamed ones (at least on the Topo maps.) Looks like there’s a lot of land connections. Neither the topo resolution nor the google map resolution is really good enough to show if it’s along some seasonal drainage channel or not, but some of them look pretty solid. That ArcGIS is a great site. Thanks, **Mr Downtown**! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913.md?page=2)