# Minnesota-Ontario border question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 21, 2011, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913 "2011-12-21T03:01:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tmarcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@tmarcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tmarcl)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/21 "2011-12-22T03:54:45Z")
> [@Mdcastleman](#): > > The Northwest Angle, I’ve been there. (I’ve also been to Key West, so I’ve been to the northernmost and southernmost points reachable by road in the continenental US). > [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Alaska’s not continenental, then? 😃 That’s actually a good question. In the military, we refer to CONUS, which is the _Contiguous_ United States (that is, the 48 states that are clustered together, excluding Alaska and Hawaii). I’ve also heard it refer to the _Continental_ United States. In the military, at least, it might be that the speaker is confusing the two, and still refering to the 48 states, but I’d be curious to know if this is something _non_-military folk do as well. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/22 "2011-12-22T04:27:23Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Neither the topo resolution nor the google map resolution is really good enough . . . Just so. For example, with respect to Long Portage, here is a [description by a hiker](http://www.silentsports.net/leadstories/on-the-border-with-beauty-jcpg-243395-135025458.html): > [@](#): > > After breakfast we walk the 1.5-mile Long Portage connecting Rose to Rove Lake. Separated only by the seven-foot-wide stream flowing from Rove to Rose, Canada is literally within reach if one wanted to cross the “dotted line” and set foot on impassible vegetation. So it appears that there is in fact a water connection between Rose and Rove Lakes, which defines the boundary, even though it isn’t navigable and doesn’t show up at the resolution of Google Maps. The book [Minnesota’s Boundary with Canada: It’s Evolution Since 1783](http://books.google.com/books?id=wXAu-xA3y3gC&pg=PA111&lpg=PA111&dq=Minnesota+Ontario+boundary+survey&source=bl&ots=abauRuHJBB&sig=PntErqy2MFOge86YsZyZrnVmz3k&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_ajyToHgO5PAgAfKrp2XAg&ved=0CEYQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=Minnesota%20Ontario%20boundary%20survey&f=false) appears to corroborate wiki as regards only three land borders: > [@](#): > > The 426-mile border from the northwest corner of Lake of the Woods to the mouth of the Pigeon River was defined with 1,373 reference markers placed on lakeshores, islands, and stream banks and nine boundary monuments erected on the three portages–Swamp, Height of Land, and Watap. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/23 "2011-12-22T04:33:50Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > If you are looking for border trivia, there is a small chunk of land, a peninsula on Lake of the Woods, just east of Manitoba, that is actually US territory north of the 49th parallel. To drive there (if you can) you would have to go through Canada. Just a small nitpick, but you can drive there without going through Canada in the winter months when there is enough ice on the lake. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JWT\_Kottekoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ec8ea/32.png) [@JWT\_Kottekoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JWT_Kottekoe)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/24 "2011-12-22T05:14:00Z")
I’ve traveled the short bit of the border at Prairie Portage, where there is a customs office that you have to go through when traveling into Canada from the trailhead on Moose Lake. You can’t see it from the satellite view, but I think there is a small creek that connects the two lakes (Sucker Lake and Basswood Lake). Most of the portages along the border lakes are quite short. The exception is the nine mile long Grand Portage at the easternmost end, which goes around a waterfall and rapids on the Pigeon river as the terrain falls into the basin of Lake Superior. The border lakes were a thoroughfare for the Voyageurs and other fur traders. ---
**Author:** ![Gbro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Gbro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gbro)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/25 "2011-12-23T02:41:16Z")
Try this site; [GIS Cook County](http://www.co.cook.mn.us/index.php/doing-business/mapsgis) My PC will not open PDF’s :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/26 "2011-12-23T02:54:16Z")
> [@JWT\_Kottekoe](#): > > I’ve traveled the short bit of the border at Prairie Portage, where there is a customs office that you have to go through when traveling into Canada from the trailhead on Moose Lake. You can’t see it from the satellite view, but I think there is a small creek that connects the two lakes (Sucker Lake and Basswood Lake). Wow. Now I remember that. I was 17 when I passed through there. 32.5 years ago. I went with a friend of a friend of my parents and his son. We put in at Moose, had a bear encounter the first night on Moose. Went up and crossed over into Quetico and up into Lake Agnes. The black flies were insane. Liquid running bug spray only trapped them in it’s viscosity, it didn’t kill or deter them. ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2011, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/27 "2011-12-24T02:07:02Z")
You can get a permit to cross the border in advance if you want to do so in an area without customs facilities. They do patrol these remote areas of a border. A friend of mine had his group kicked out of Canada when he strayed across the border without a proper permit in an attempt to find a campsite (all the ones on the U.S. side were full). ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2011, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/28 "2011-12-24T02:11:57Z")
They do but not often. Last time I was up there, all the camp sites lower down on Thursday Bay (Crooked Lake) were full and it was a pretty nasty storm, so we camped on the Canada side. Two late-coming groups camped together directly on the portage across from us because it was too nasty to push on and all the regulation sites were full. We ended up staying at that site for two days. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2011, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/29 "2011-12-24T04:16:22Z")
> [@Mdcastleman](#): > > You can get a permit to cross the border in advance if you want to do so in an area without customs facilities. They do patrol these remote areas of a border. A friend of mine had his group kicked out of Canada when he strayed across the border without a proper permit in an attempt to find a campsite (all the ones on the U.S. side were full). Sort of. Your friends were given the boot for not having a park camping permit, rather than for being in Canada without a permit. Although they were not in Canada legally and could have been kicked out by a person of proper authority, the person who kicked them out did not hold that authority, and simply kicked them out of the park (rather than out of Canada) for not having a camping permit. Since the closest park boundary was with Minnesota rather than elsewhere in Ontario, and since that is where they came from, it happed that they ended up leaving Canada when they left the park. A [CANPASS – REMOTE AREA BORDER CROSSING PERMIT](http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/prog/canpass/rabc-pfre/menu-eng.html) is required for Americans who want to paddle into Quetico from Minnesota prior to reporting to Candian customs, other than Americans paddling and portaging the international boundary as per the Webster-Ashburton Treaty. Note that Webster-Ashburton allows travel, but it does not allow staying overnight, pic-nics, fishing, and the like. (It used to be that folks could have pic-nics, but that has been tightened up post-9/11.) I leave it to the good reader to decide if a [boating-by shoot-up](http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=www.mncourts.gov%2Fdocuments%2F6%2Fpublic%2Fnews%2Flakner3.pdf&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCMQxQEwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fviewer%3Fa%3Dv%26q%3Dcache%3Ag7TwNoZJ8GoJ%3Awww.mncourts.gov%2Fdocuments%2F6%2FPublic%2FNews%2Flakner3.pdf%2Bwww.mncourts.gov%2Fdocuments%2F6%2FPublic%2FNews%2Flakner3.pdf%26hl%3Den%26gl%3Dca%26pid%3Dbl%26srcid%3DADGEESiW2zB_BudcY0dpWPfn-orU5zU5F1YRPlCyoRW5a2pvjybaOKNK-fJtJ2jB0Bs6eSI5j1DQ7nYR7K-hX46xOe2VrtsqPR4j2wjt70Dm_b5AtYzsWQ4JZl7xLxK1-rkybA8VQ2CO%26sig%3DAHIEtbQxvswJjY1SBQy-BKE40q91_Cp4Dg&ei=1E31TujNLOLq0QGeocjKAg&usg=AFQjCNGQH_EcAUePEmK9JUvXFVPMpmAj2A&sig2=MYuG-qvmpuel8_SfM9-QBw) that strays over into Canada is a violation of Webster-Ashburton. I also leave it to the good reader to decide on whether or not Webster-Ashburton permitted entry into Canada by a BWCA ranger engaged in the business of trying to arrest a Canadian who was in Canada on a canoe trip entirely in Canada but near the Quetico/BWCA boundary, for the alleged infraction of not having a BWCA permit. But I digress. The Canada Border Services Agency staffs a few customs and immigration check-in stations in Quetico, but they do not patrol the park – they could if they wanted to, but they do not. They are the only people in the park who have the authority to kick someone out of Canada for not meeting Canadian federal laws pertaining to customs and immigration. Quite separate from the above, note that Quetico is a provincial park (similar to a state park). A Quetico Park permit is required for anyone regardless of nationality to go in Quetico, with the exception of Webster-Ashburton travellers. Quetico park staff patrol the park, but they only enforce provincial park rules and related provincial laws (e.g. camping, fishing, fires). They do not enforce federal immigration laws (e.g. customs and immigration). They can kick people out of the park if those people should not be in the park (and they can and do fine people if the people should not be in the park), but they can not kick people out of Canada if the only reason is that the people should not be in Canada – they do not have the authority to do this. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2011, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/30 "2011-12-24T04:17:37Z")
> [@Gbro](#): > > Try this site; [GIS Cook County](http://www.co.cook.mn.us/index.php/doing-business/mapsgis) > My PC will not open PDF’s :dubious: That’s 'cause it’s PC (politically correct) to wear a PFD. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2011, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913/31 "2011-12-24T05:57:49Z")
You can use these [coordinates](http://www.internationalboundarycommission.org/coordinates/LLakeWo.txt) to plot out the boundary. Here is the [Canadian 1:50,000 topo map series](http://atlas.nrcan.gc.ca/site/english/maps/topo/map). (The Ontario Basic Map series is in a more detailed scale, but it is not searchable for free and really does not give any better detail despite being a more detailed scale.) Here is the [Minnesota DNR 1:24,000 topo series](http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/maps/tomo.html). The primary land boundary is Height of Land Portage at roughly 48.1,-90.565969 (do not use the minus sign if you are searching the Canadian 1:50,000 topo series). The lesser two are Watap Portage at roughly 48.1033333,-90.3011111 and Swamp Portage at roughly 48.188779,-91.049924. Quadgop, when you make your break for freedom, be sure to use a current map, for the Pigeon River bridge has been moved, and all that remains where the old one was located is a canyon – would not want to you accidentally do a Thelma and Louise when you are so close to freedom. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-ontario-border-question/606913.md?page=1)