# Minnesota police shooting at traffic stop -- aftermath live streamed on FB **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 7, 2016, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307 "2016-07-07T13:47:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/1 "2016-07-07T13:47:04Z")
Yeah, we don’t know what happened that prompted the shooting, other than what the victim’s girlfriend says happened immediately post the shooting, that Castle was reaching for his wallet for ID and his concealed carry permit, at the request of the officer. Officer claims on the video that he told the victim to keep his hands up and believed that he was reaching for a gun. > **[Woman streams aftermath of fatal officer-involved shooting | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2016/07/07/us/falcon-heights-shooting-minnesota/)** > > As Philando Castile lies dying next to her, Diamond Reynolds looks into the camera and explains a Minnesota police officer just shot her fiancé four times. We definitely have a problem when someone reaching for their ID prompts a policeman to think “shoot”. I’d be dead right now if that was the protocol for all traffic stops. It is common thinking to reach for your ID when being stopped by police. I think that most officers get it, and aren’t that quick to pull the trigger, but apparently some % are, and that’s not good. We need better training of officers, and maybe a higher bar for recruitment of officers. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/2 "2016-07-07T14:59:59Z")
After thinking about it more, we need more police trained with the mindset of Sherriff Andy Taylor and less with the mindset of deputy Barney Fife. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/3 "2016-07-07T15:04:29Z")
Officer: I also need your registration Driver: OK, it’s in the glovebox [Officer shoots] Officer: He was reaching in the glovebox! I thought he was going for a gun! Yeah, I can see a problem with this scenario. ---
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/4 "2016-07-07T16:48:56Z")
Two things struck me about the video: It shows the officer standing there with his gun trained on the bleeding guy for a looooong time after the shooting. The woman with the camera seemed very calm and collected to have just watched her boyfriend shot right next to her during a routine traffic stop. I would have been freaking. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/5 "2016-07-07T16:54:07Z")
Some cops shouldn’t be cops. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/6 "2016-07-07T16:55:08Z")
> [@xizor](#): > > Two things struck me about the video: > It shows the officer standing there with his gun trained on the bleeding guy for a looooong time after the shooting. > The woman with the camera seemed very calm and collected to have just watched her boyfriend shot right next to her during a routine traffic stop. I would have been freaking. First, people handle stress very differently and secondly I’m sure she was thinking, “If I freak out, this scared cop will shoot me too.” I could understand her thinking that she needed ‘evidence’ to what happened, just for her own safety. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/7 "2016-07-07T16:56:52Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > First, people handle stress very differently and secondly I’m sure she was thinking, “If I freak out, this scared cop will shoot me too.” This seems very plausible indeed. As horrified as she is that her boyfriend was just shot, both she and her daughter are still in the car and an angry white man who just killed her boyfriend is pointing a gun at them. Freezing up is pretty understandable. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/8 "2016-07-07T16:58:39Z")
Jesus fucking christ. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/9 "2016-07-07T17:09:32Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > This seems very plausible indeed. As horrified as she is that her boyfriend was just shot, both she and her daughter are still in the car and an angry white man who just killed her boyfriend is pointing a gun at them. Freezing up is pretty understandable. I think the Officer was Asian, possible Chinese; I don’t think he was angry, I think he was afraid and realizing he may (if the events Ms. Reynolds said happened, unfolded as she said they did) be losing his job, if not going to prison. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/10 "2016-07-07T17:17:16Z")
The US is a country with more guns than people. I fully expect my cops to be armed and prepared for that. If you want to live in a country where the cops are armed with wiffle bats, move to a country where the citizenry isn’t armed to the teeth. Otherwise, gun death is the price o’ freedom, as they say. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/11 "2016-07-07T17:28:31Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > The US is a country with more guns than people. I fully expect my cops to be armed and prepared for that. If you want to live in a country where the cops are armed with wiffle bats, move to a country where the citizenry isn’t armed to the teeth. Otherwise, gun death is the price o’ freedom, as they say. Sure being prepared for the worst, but expecting a bit more from our citizens is more closely the approach that should be taken. Based on certain studies only 26% of Americans own a gun, much less a handgun, and only a small percentage of those are non law abiding. Expecting to get shot every time you do a traffic stop, will lead to more innocents being killed by the police. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/12 "2016-07-07T17:37:03Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Sure being prepared for the worst, but expecting a bit more from our citizens is more closely the approach that should be taken. Based on certain studies only 26% of Americans own a gun, much less a handgun, and only a small percentage of those are non law abiding. Expecting to get shot every time you do a traffic stop, will lead to more innocents being killed by the police. Well, it’s not a slippery slope. Cops are armed and make tons of traffic stops everyday and very few people get shot. Cops are doing a pretty good job of not shooting everybody, depending on how you define “pretty good.” ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/13 "2016-07-07T17:40:15Z")
At the rate American police are killing people “pretty good” = “abysmal” ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/14 "2016-07-07T17:41:51Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Well, it’s not a slippery slope. Cops are armed and make tons of traffic stops everyday and very few people get shot. Cops are doing a pretty good job of not shooting everybody, depending on how you define “pretty good.” If one innocent person a week is shot during a traffic stop, that is too high. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/15 "2016-07-07T17:42:55Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > At the rate American police are killing people “pretty good” = “abysmal” Well, considering how many non-cop gun deaths occur every year I’d say Americans’ responsible conduct with their guns is also pretty abysmal. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/16 "2016-07-07T17:46:02Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > We definitely have a problem when someone reaching for their ID prompts a policeman to think “shoot”. You left out the fact that the guy told the cop he had a gun on him just before reaching into his pocket. That changes things a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/17 "2016-07-07T17:49:39Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > You left out the fact that the guy told the cop he had a gun on him just before reaching into his pocket. That changes things a lot. Yes, I’d feel a bit more relaxed since it was disclosed, and I’d likely consider this person less risky due to the disclosure. With the proliferation of CCH’s police officers should be trained on dealing with people carrying. And almost all CCH’s are advised to notify the officer they are carrying when they are stopped. A very common occurrence and one I’ve been through a few times when stopped for speeding, without incident. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/18 "2016-07-07T17:54:07Z")
If cops are scared they are scared and that is a hard thing to change, what is not hard to change is the policy on how stops are handled. The cop should put himself in a position where he is not scared and feels secure at all times. Nearly all these shooting were because a cop left himself vulnerable. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/19 "2016-07-07T18:05:18Z")
I believe the carrier is required to tell the policeman that he has a firearm, as the guy did. It is supposed to prevent this from happening. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/20 "2016-07-07T18:07:12Z")
Being a police officer is a very dangerous occupation, and I have the utmost respect for the men and women that have chosen that profession. During 2015, 39 officers lost their lives to being shot, with 2 of those considered accidental. So far in 2016 that number is up to 21, slightly ahead of last years pace. Now compare that to the number of people in the US that were shot and killed by police at 990 during 2015 (no data on how many of those were accidental.) So far in 2016, that number is at 509, also outpacing last year. In the US there are approximately 1.2 million law enforcement officers. So based upon those stats you are about 250x more likely to be killed as a policeman in the line of duty than as an ordinary citizen being killed by the police. That seems reasonable to me given their line of work. What doesn’t seem reasonable is the trend of being black and accidentally being shot in a traffic stop by a police officer. Again we need better training for officers. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307.md?page=2)