# Minnesota police shooting at traffic stop -- aftermath live streamed on FB **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 7, 2016, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307 "2016-07-07T13:47:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/21 "2016-07-07T18:12:07Z")
There’s definitely some problem with the training of police going on. They’re being taught to be on the defensive 100% of the time and that failing to do so can cost them their lives. Telling them that in a split second decision of uncertainty they need to pull the trigger without hesitation and the law will stand behind them. This gives them license to interpret every move someone makes as a threat worth using lethal force against. If that’s the case (and it shouldn’t be) then there is also a disconnect between the police and the public as to how you are expected to act in the presence of an officer to avoid being seen as a threat. This falls squarely on the shoulders of law enforcement. You can’t make up the rules of how to engage with a citizen and then not tell the citizen these rules. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/22 "2016-07-07T18:20:03Z")
How often does a person tell an officer that he has a permit to carry a concealed weapon and that he has the weapon on him, and then shoot the officer? How often do people who go through all the trouble to get CCW permits (or whatever they call them in their area) actually shoot police officers? I suspect it’s hardly ever, but does anybody actually have any numbers? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/23 "2016-07-07T18:24:23Z")
Clearly a massive problem with public/police interactions in the US. I was surprised at the woman’s description of events. She said as he was reaching into his back pocket, he told the cop he had a gun on him, and she yelled that he had a CCP. Last time I was stopped by a cop was maybe 5 yrs ago. I sat there with my hands on the steering wheel until he approached. When he asked for my license, I said my wallet was in my back pocket and asked if I could get it. When asked for registration and insurance, I said it was in glove box and asked if I could reach for it. And I’m white, middle aged, and this took place in upper income suburb. Crazy world. ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/24 "2016-07-07T18:28:52Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > Officer: I also need your registration > > Driver: OK, it’s in the glovebox > > [Officer shoots] > > Officer: He was reaching in the glovebox! I thought he was going for a gun! > > Yeah, I can see a problem with this scenario. Well, this [isn’t the first](http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/25/justice/south-carolina-trooper-shooting/) and probably not even the tenth or 100th time that exact scenario has happened. ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/25 "2016-07-07T18:35:49Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Last time I was stopped by a cop was maybe 5 yrs ago. I sat there with my hands on the steering wheel until he approached. When he asked for my license, I said my wallet was in my back pocket and asked if I could get it. When asked for registration and insurance, I said it was in glove box and asked if I could reach for it. And I’m white, middle aged, and this took place in upper income suburb. And I think that’s pretty much textbook what you’re _supposed_ to do. But a LOT of people, white and black and everyone else, are nervous, flustered, or just try to treat the situation like a normal human interaction. My dad (big white guy) got yelled at some years ago for _getting out of the car_ after being pulled over on the highway. At 4 a.m. or so. “WTF is wrong with you?” I asked afterward…“that’s what we were taught to do” (in the 60’s or whatever, I guess). I can only imagine that a stern reprimand would be a _very, very, fortunate outcome_ for a black guy in that situation. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/26 "2016-07-07T18:41:06Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > With the proliferation of CCH’s police officers should be trained on dealing with people carrying. And almost all CCH’s are advised to notify the officer they are carrying when they are stopped. A very common occurrence and one I’ve been through a few times when stopped for speeding, without incident. Yeah, but did you follow up by reaching into your pocket? It’s the combination of those two things that lead to this shooting. Either one or the other would not have produced that result. It seems common sense to me. Cop knows you have a gun on you that’s great, but then don’t put your hand into your pocket. (Especially, if - as the cop claims - he told the guy to keep his hands still, but even if not.) > [@troub](#): > > And I think that’s pretty much textbook what you’re _supposed_ to do. But a LOT of people, white and black and everyone else, are nervous, flustered, or just try to treat the situation like a normal human interaction. My dad (big white guy) got yelled at some years ago for _getting out of the car_ after being pulled over on the highway. At 4 a.m. or so. “WTF is wrong with you?” I asked afterward…“that’s what we were taught to do” (in the 60’s or whatever, I guess). I can only imagine that a stern reprimand would be a _very, very, fortunate outcome_ for a black guy in that situation. If, as you claim, “a LOT of people, white and black” do that, then it’s likely that the vast majority of black people who do this don’t in fact get shot as you go on to suggest. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/27 "2016-07-07T18:41:12Z")
Pulled guy over for a “busted taillight” that was NOT busted. That’s an illegal stop. Then shoots the guy reaching for his wallet. This is local to me, just across the river from where I work. I hope that cop gets convicted of Manslaughter at the very least, and I hope the department has to pay a few million in legal fees and judgments against them. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/28 "2016-07-07T18:45:11Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Yeah, but did you follow up by reaching into your pocket? Yes, when the officer asked me for my ID. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/29 "2016-07-07T18:47:48Z")
bang. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/30 "2016-07-07T18:47:59Z")
> [@troub](#): > > And I think that’s pretty much textbook what you’re _supposed_ to do. But a LOT of people, white and black and everyone else, are nervous, flustered, or just try to treat the situation like a normal human interaction. I found the Tamir Rice case to be a tragic example of this. One second you’re minding your own business alone in a park caught up in your Walter Mitty fantasy moment with your BB gun and two seconds later you’re being bum-rushed by cops shouting “PUTTHEGUNDOWNPUTTHEGUNDOWNPUTTHEGUNDOWN” and before you can even figure out what the hell is going on BLAM! you’re dead. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/31 "2016-07-07T18:51:15Z")
The video **troub** posted exemplifies the poor behavior exhibited by that officer and most likely what happened in the Minnesota case if you believe the statements of Castile’s girlfriend. “I need to see your ID.” _Suspect reaches for ID, or turns to get ID out of the car._ _Officer is spooked by the black man reaching for something._ “Get your hands up” or " Get out of the car" _Suspect doesn’t immediately react or react fast enough, because he is responding to the first request._ _Officer shoots!_ When asked why they shot, the officer will respond, “I told the suspect to get their hands up or get out of the car, and they were reaching for what I thought was a gun”. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/32 "2016-07-07T18:54:31Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > The US is a country with more guns than people. I fully expect my cops to be armed and prepared for that. If you want to live in a country where the cops are armed with wiffle bats, move to a country where the citizenry isn’t armed to the teeth. Otherwise, gun death is the price o’ freedom, as they say. If there is an acceptable number of citizens who die unlawfully at the hands of police, there is also an acceptable number of police officers who take a bullet behind the ear while eating their morning donut. That is where this will go if there is no justice for the victims families. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/33 "2016-07-07T19:02:00Z")
> [@chorpler](#): > > How often does a person tell an officer that he has a permit to carry a concealed weapon and that he has the weapon on him, and then shoot the officer? To lull him into a False Sense of Security, perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307/34 "2016-07-07T20:18:22Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Being a police officer is a very dangerous occupation, and I have the utmost respect for the men and women that have chosen that profession. During 2015, 39 officers lost their lives to being shot, with 2 of those considered accidental. So far in 2016 that number is up to 21, slightly ahead of last years pace. > > Now compare that to the number of people in the US that were shot and killed by police at 990 during 2015 (no data on how many of those were accidental.) So far in 2016, that number is at 509, also outpacing last year. > > In the US there are approximately 1.2 million law enforcement officers. So based upon those stats you are about 250x more likely to be killed as a policeman in the line of duty than as an ordinary citizen being killed by the police. That seems reasonable to me given their line of work. > > What doesn’t seem reasonable is the trend of being black and accidentally being shot in a traffic stop by a police officer. Again we need better training for officers. Your math is wrong. Assuming your figures are correct: 37 killed / 1.2 [million officers] = 30.8 officers shot & killed per million 990 / 319 [million population] = 3.10 citizens shot & killed by officers per million population 30.8/3.10 = officers 9.9 times as likely to be shot than general population is to be shot by them. Of course, that’s the risk among the whole population. If you limit it to people actually interacting with the police, the risk to the citizens goes up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-police-shooting-at-traffic-stop-aftermath-live-streamed-on-fb/759307.md?page=1)