# Minnesota trial of Derek Chauvin (killer of George Floyd) reactions **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 30, 2021, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024 "2021-03-30T13:14:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/221 "2021-04-08T03:32:26Z")
I disagree. It’s up to doctors to determine how he died; they’ll know way better than a jury. It’s up to the jury to decide if it was justified. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/222 "2021-04-08T13:41:14Z")
this may be where the defence overplayed. the jury just saw the defence manipulate evidence. the prosecution played more of the recording and mr floyd’s response was clearer. they did it with the photos of chauvin after the paramedics arrived. yes, after the paramedics arrived chauvin moved his knee from his neck to his shoulders. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/223 "2021-04-08T13:55:33Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The fact that he was altered and nodding off indicated that he had taken enough to affect him before the police showed up. To me the fact that he was nodding off means you probably don’t need to kneel on him to restrain him further once he’s been handcuffed. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/224 "2021-04-08T15:00:36Z")
And the ME did conclude homicide. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/225 "2021-04-08T15:08:12Z")
dr. tobin is doing an amazing job of describing breathing and the physics behind it. absolutely fascinating, very easy to follow and understand. the accent only enhances it. really great witness. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/226 "2021-04-08T15:10:28Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > The defense is trying to get Sgt. Jody Stiger of the Los Angeles Police Department, the prosecution’s use-of-force expert, to say that suspects who appear subdued or unconscious can start to fight again. But the witness says that in evaluating appropriate use of force, officers can only go by the suspect’s actions, not what they might do. The absurdity of this position should surely be obvious? If a cop can use force based on what a person is theoretically capable of doing, then cops can shoot anyone they want at any time. Amy conscious human being who is not a quadriplegic can, _in theory,_ begin trying to kill you in the next moment. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/227 "2021-04-08T15:12:57Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > If a cop can use force based on what a person is theoretically capable of doing, then cops can shoot anyone they want at any time. Yes, and? ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/228 "2021-04-08T15:13:52Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The absurdity of this position should surely be obvious? It’s not obvious to some people in this thread. > [@UltraVires](#): > > I agree with aceplace57: What if you let Floyd up and he starts again and now you are fighting with fifteen people? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/229 "2021-04-08T15:46:47Z")
Dr Tobin is fascinating. I’ve taken vocal coaching and learned about breath support. I understand it much better after Dr Tobin’s lecture. His testimony helps confirm (to me) that Floyd’s death is from negligence. Tobin’s screen shots illustrate the many factors happening at once. The hard ground, prone position,three men on Floyd etc. I don’t think there was any intention to kill Floyd. But a reasonable person should have foreseen that possibility. A manslaughter convection seems to fit the crime. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/230 "2021-04-08T15:47:06Z")
i will never forget dr tobin stating that at one point mr floyd was trying to use his fingers and knuckles against the tire of the squad car to draw breath. just devastating, the torture mr floyd went through. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/231 "2021-04-08T15:55:31Z")
I expect the defense to ask about drugs and how they can effect breathing. That’s a factor the prosecution is carefully avoiding. I’m surprised the Doctor hasn’t mentioned Hyperventilating. I’ve experienced it after surgery and it’s terrifying. When your diaphragm starts spasming it’s almost impossible to breath. I hope to never go through that again. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/232 "2021-04-08T16:07:09Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > His testimony helps confirm (to me) that Floyd’s death is from negligence. I don’t believe Tobin’s testimony addresses whether Floyd died due to negligence - I believe it only shows that Floyd was trying his goddamndest to get sufficient oxygen, but could not do so because of what Chauvin had done to him (proned/cuffed him, with Chauvin weighing on his back and neck). It points to Chauvin (not drugs) being the cause of Floyd’s death, but the question of negligence or intent on Chauvin’s part is a separate issue. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/233 "2021-04-08T16:58:10Z")
dr tobin just blew the fentanol argument out of the water. he stated that he had a normal respiratory rate, where fentanol would have decreased his rate. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/234 "2021-04-08T17:14:39Z")
This Tobin testimony is just devastating to the defense. IANAL, but ISTM if the jury finds Tobin credible (and I’m not sure why they wouldn’t, unless the defense has something up their sleeve that would kill his cred), they’d have to find Chauvin guilty. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/235 "2021-04-08T17:30:29Z")
they asked him about the underlying conditions that floyd had and he stated that made no difference. he was fantastic with pulling the jury into the testimony. having them feel their necks, counting along with respirations… the jury was riveted, as reporters stated once the lunch break started. he stated mr floyd had normal respiration rate (12-22), with fentanyl it would have been 10 or under, with heart trouble it would be faster. he stated that the policemen kept the restraint on for 3-4 minutes after mr floyd died. 3-4 minutes… just… no words. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/236 "2021-04-08T17:37:56Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > …they’d have to find Chauvin guilty. Just an aside, my uncle (a lawyer) was on the local TV station when the OJ trial was going on, watching live and commenting, along with other lawyers and such. When the DNA evidence came in, he said, “well, that pretty much does it – I don’t see how they won’t find OJ guilty now.” Ha! ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/237 "2021-04-08T17:54:04Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > he stated that the policemen kept the restraint on for 3-4 minutes after mr floyd died. 3-4 minutes… just… no words. Well, ya know what the defense says about POSSIBLE threats. And folk HAVE reported zombies rising from the dead… 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/238 "2021-04-08T18:07:13Z")
Do EMT’s carry badges or official ID? Genevieve Hansen wanted to administer aid. Flashing a badge might have persuaded the officers to let her try. It’s something they should consider for the future. Off duty EMT’s need a way to identify themselves and some authority to say “let me do my job”. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/239 "2021-04-08T18:50:21Z")
Do you really think it would have made a difference? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/240 "2021-04-08T18:56:17Z")
Respiratory aid would have made a huge difference. The off duty EMT was right there and would have provided aid for several minutes before the ambulance arrived. Off duty EMT’s should have some authority at these scenes. At least let them check pulse, respiration, and provide aid. Very basic equipment should be carried in the police cars first responder kit. Hopefully better policies will help save lives in the future. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024.md?page=13)