# Minnesota trial of Derek Chauvin (killer of George Floyd) reactions **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 30, 2021, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024 "2021-03-30T13:14:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2021, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/721 "2021-04-21T14:44:41Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Migosh. I’ve known many Americans in my life (heck, I was married to one), and I’ve never heard such sentiments from any of them. Americans, please tell me that the people expressing these views are a minority. > [@Gyrate](#): > > A minority, perhaps, but just barely. This. They are a minority, but not a small minority. My guess is that they make up something like 1/2 to 2/3 of Republican voters. Republican voters, in turn, make. up something like a little more than 1/4 of American adults. So probably somewhere around 15 to 20 % of all American adults. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2021, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/722 "2021-04-21T14:47:04Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > So what do you think he was thinking? He held Floyd down for a long time, as Floyd gasped for breath and a crowd of witnesses begged him to stop. I honestly think he was thinking “let’s just make sure this guy is dead”. Of course, i can’t know that. But it’s hard for me to imagine any other frame of thought that leads to that action. My guess is that it was the old Eric Cartman. He was thinking “respect my authority.” Not respect the law, or the authority vested in me by the legal system, but “respect my personal authority.” ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2021, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/723 "2021-04-21T14:50:09Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > When another officer asked Chauvin to consider moving him to the side and Chauvin refused, that is the moment George Floyd’s murder became premeditated. Yes, that’s why I think he was guilty of murder 1. He had plenty of time to reconsider. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2021, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/724 "2021-04-21T14:51:20Z")
These are all excellent points. And to drill into the specific realm of policing, it is much more than a few racist assholes causing the problem. The system of policing in the U.S. teaches cops that every person they encounter is a potential threat. Their actions are governed by the mantra “I’d rather be judged by twelve than carried by six.” Every interaction - traffic stop, domestic argument, trespassing, homelessness, suspected forgery - could potentially be dangerous, so they must go in armed and ready for violence at any moment. They escalate any situation just by walking into it. Add in system racism that causes many police, not just the “racist assholes”, to see POC as a bigger threat, and you end up with a system that is dangerous for everyone, but even more so for Black people. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2021, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/725 "2021-04-21T16:06:21Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > The system of policing in the U.S. teaches cops that every person they encounter is a potential threat. Their actions are governed by the mantra “I’d rather be judged by twelve than carried by six.” Agree. I’ve thought for a while that American police suffer from some sort of _pre_ traumatic stress disorder. They are effectively broken people before they hit the street on their first day. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/726 "2021-04-21T16:20:13Z")
They’re disappointed because they are fascists who have contempt for anyone who doesn’t have their worldview and/or background. Riots - hell even a noisy protest - would have validated their biases that liberals and minorities are a threat to their kind. The absence of a riot deprived them of an opportunity to confirm their suspicions. But this kind of polarization is very real and I don’t see signs of it going away anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2021, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/727 "2021-04-21T16:28:31Z")
There are agencies that get it right, but they pay well and they can afford to be selective. I’ve wondered if perhaps we couldn’t have something like the 1994 crime bill all over again but this time, instead of purchasing tanks, body armor, and battering rams, we could spend less on weapons and more on increasing law enforcement pay and professionalism throughout the country. Start with the major metro departments first, and maybe then encourage federal/state/local partnerships that work toward replicating these efforts. Instead of the crime bill, call it the community protection or cooperative community safety act - whatever you want to call it. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2021, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/728 "2021-04-21T16:30:15Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Is that when you are committing felony assault in particular or any felony at all? Depends on state law. In my state (Kansas), for example, it applies only to “any inherently dangerous felony,” with the list of those [defined in statute](http://kslegislature.org/li/b2021_22/statute/021_000_0000_chapter/021_054_0000_article/021_054_0002_section/021_054_0002_k/): rape, robbery, kidnapping, arson, endangering the food supply, fleeing law enforcement, criminal discharge of a firearm, and so forth. If you’ve somehow managed to get somebody killed in the course of embezzling public funds or counterfeiting identity documents or falsely registered an aircraft under a non-existent owner’s name or distributing unauthorized gambling devices, while those are felonies they are not “inherently dangerous” so the death would not qualify under the felony murder statute. (Of course, it might qualify under some other murder/manslaughter statute.) ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2021, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/729 "2021-04-21T16:38:25Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > There are agencies that get it right, but they pay well and they can afford to be selective. What do typical US police officers make? Anyone know what the typical salary is in Minneapolis? Here in Canada it’s typically over $100K. > The typical Toronto Police Service Police Officer salary is $107,824. Police Officer salaries at Toronto Police Service can range from $94,500 - $113,962. [https://www.glassdoor.ca/Salary/Toronto-Police-Service-Police-Officer-Salaries-E130795\_D\_KO23,37.htm](https://www.glassdoor.ca/Salary/Toronto-Police-Service-Police-Officer-Salaries-E130795_D_KO23,37.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2021, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/730 "2021-04-21T16:42:53Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Of course, it makes one wonder why generic anonymous commenting is even a thing on news stories. They are inevitably a cesspool. But that’s a hijack here. Because readers who get caught up in fights in the comments will keep coming back to the page to continue fighting, which drives up page clicks. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2021, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/731 "2021-04-21T16:47:05Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > When another officer asked Chauvin to consider moving him to the side and Chauvin refused, that is the moment George Floyd’s murder became premeditated. This seems like a situation where crew resource management training might have served them well: > **[Crew resource management](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crew_resource_management)** > > Crew resource management or cockpit resource management (CRM) is a set of training procedures for use in environments where human error can have devastating effects. CRM is primarily used for improving aviation safety and focuses on interpersonal communication, leadership, and decision making in aircraft cockpits. Its founder is David Beaty, a former Royal Air Force and a BOAC pilot who wrote "The Human Factor in Aircraft Accidents" (1969). Despite the considerable development of electroni CRM... CRM started in aviation, but it has spread to firefighting and other endeavors. Maybe ought to spread to police training as well. ---
**Author:** ![keeganst94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@keeganst94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeganst94)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2021, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/732 "2021-04-21T17:01:55Z")
Worth noting that that’s somewhat inflated by the conversion rate from CAD to USD. It works out to about 75-92K USD. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2021, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/733 "2021-04-21T17:02:00Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Yes, that’s why I think he was guilty of murder 1. He had plenty of time to reconsider. The prosecutors who did an excellent job disagree with you and I still think that it’s different than you think it is. A pretty good explanation is linked below (ignore that the article quotes Nancy Grace at first). From the article: "Even proving Chauvin had an alleged intent to kill Floyd–which could plausibly fit the definition of second-degree murder in Minnesota–would prove difficult. That is especially true because Chauvin is also charged with manslaughter based on negligence. The dichotomy is this: prosecutors seem to have made a determination about Chauvin’s state of mind and decided that he simply lacked the criminal intent–[what lawyers call _mens rea_](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/mens_rea)–to kill. In order to get to “murder one,” prosecutors would probably have had to at least start with “murder two” and likely would have not filed manslaughter charges at all. Understood by the common law as “malice aforethought,” prosecutors have, so far at least, found no evidence to suggest that Chauvin explicitly _wanted or planned to kill_ Floyd." > **[Why Derek Chauvin Was Not Charged With First-Degree Murder | Law & Crime](https://lawandcrime.com/live-trials/live-trials-current/george-floyd-death/nancy-grace-wants-to-know-why-derek-chauvin-wasnt-charged-with-first-degree-murder-in-george-floyds-death/)** > > Fox Nation host Nancy Grace wants to know why former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin is not being charged with first-degree murder over the killing of George Floyd. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2021, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/734 "2021-04-21T17:09:35Z")
I don’t watch the idiot named Tucker Carlson often, so I’m not sure if this is normal. He goes into a very odd, unhinged laughter around 3:15: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/s0ayHFwKjOE/maxresdefault.jpg "Ed Gavin Tucker Carlson interview on police training") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0ayHFwKjOE) What the fuck? Is this part of his schtick? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2021, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/735 "2021-04-21T17:41:30Z")
Really? > **[Derek Chauvin: What we know about the former officer convicted in George...](https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/01/us/derek-chauvin-what-we-know-trnd/index.html)** > > Derek Chauvin worked for the Minneapolis Police Department for more than 18 years. In the span of nearly a year, he was filmed kneeling on George Floyd's neck for more than nine minutes, fired from the police department and convicted of murder and... _Only two of the 18 complaints were “closed with discipline,” according to a MPD internal affairs public summary. In both cases, Chauvin received a letter of reprimand._ _According to [Communities Against Police Brutality](http://complaints.cuapb.org/police_archive/officer/2377/), a Minnesota nonprofit that created a database of complaints against officers in the state, Chauvin received oral reprimands for using a “demeaning tone,” “derogatory language” and other language that merited discipline._ So only two legit complaints, and of those demeaning tone," “derogatory language” and other language that merited discipline. Nothing for excessive force, etc. People often filed complaints for things like getting a speeding ticket they that was undeserved, etc. There was nothing in Chauvins file which indicated a killer. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2021, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/736 "2021-04-21T17:53:19Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So only two legit complaints Actually, according to _your_ cite, he was disciplined 5 times, not 2. So still a problem officer. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2021, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/737 "2021-04-21T18:04:00Z")
_Only two of the 18 complaints were “closed with discipline,” according to a MPD internal affairs public summary. In both cases, Chauvin received a letter of reprimand._ > **[Thousands of Complaints Do Little to Change Police Ways (Published 2020)](https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-nw-nyt-george-floyd-derek-chauvin-police-complaints-20200531-wpzve34lgzddtmcm4nhsktiwm4-story.html)** > > Efforts to hold problem officers accountable face resistance from unions, and juries are reluctant to second-guess. _# 17 misconduct complaints did little to derail Minneapolis officer’s career. That’s not unusual in police departments nationwide._ A complaint isnt always legit. My wife works at Ralphs. Since she has to ask people to wears masks she is logging like a complaint a day. From maskholes. Sure that’s retail, not police, but still complaints arent always legit. There was nothing in Chauvins file that indicated a killer. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2021, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/738 "2021-04-21T18:08:03Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Only two of the 18 complaints were “closed with discipline, Your second cite, above, lists 5 complaints that were sustained, so 5, not 2 as you keep insisting. 5 sustained, 5 with reprimands, either oral or by letter. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2021, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/739 "2021-04-21T18:17:37Z")
It looks like a couple of the cases are repeated; there are just two with reprimands, 03-1999 and IA07-39. My questions are: - How does the number of cases compare to other officers? - Who’s doing the judging and based on what? ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2021, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024/740 "2021-04-21T18:32:32Z")
Here’s a NYTimes article on Chauvin’s prior issues with policing. It’s a single article based largely on anecdotes so we can’t base all opinions on it but it does seem to paint a picture of an officer run amok: [https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/02/us/derek-chauvin-george-floyd-past-cases.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/02/us/derek-chauvin-george-floyd-past-cases.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minnesota-trial-of-derek-chauvin-killer-of-george-floyd-reactions/939024.md?page=38)