# Minor, but surprisingly widespread SF&F themes **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 23, 2004, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102 "2004-08-23T16:09:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/21 "2004-08-23T21:49:02Z")
> [@BraheSilver](#): > > Finish this phrase: “The Hunters become…” “… drunk.” (At least, that’s what seems to happen to hunters out in the woods around here.) ---
**Author:** ![ElectricZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58f4c7/32.png) [@ElectricZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElectricZ)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/22 "2004-08-23T21:55:34Z")
> [@Capt B. Phart](#): > > My personal hate is that _every single_ artificial life-form, 'bot and droid wants to be more human, to learn how to feel emotions, go with hunches rather than logic etc. Gah! Give it a break! You need more [_Red Dwarf_](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094535/) in your life. Or at least the first six seasons of it, before it became what the early seasons parodied so well. There is a mechanoid character that aspires to be human – until he realizes what being human means and how much it can suck. What human behavior he does pick up is in the form of learning how to lie, and be sarcastic and insulting. You got to love a show where a sensitive android muses about the meaning of freindship and is told, “Don’t give me that_Star Trek_ crap.” Bru’al! EZ ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/23 "2004-08-23T22:08:00Z")
And there’s the iron law of alternate history novels: All divergence points inevitably lead to people flying around in zeppelins. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/24 "2004-08-23T22:57:27Z")
Well, I mean, c’mon, **Little Nemo** , a scene where people are flying around in large soup ladles would strain credulity. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/25 "2004-08-23T23:05:09Z")
> [@C K Dexter Haven](#): > > Well, I mean, c’mon, **Little Nemo** , a scene where people are flying around in large soup ladles would strain credulity. No. flying in COLLANDERS would strain cedulity. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/26 "2004-08-23T23:11:21Z")
**sb** , I might need to see the movie again, but I felt if you’re looking for the causes of human behavior, that brain’s the place to go. Granted that the important things couldn’t be measured and all that - which is a pretty common theme in SF, weird that such an anti-technology philosophy is such a mainstream message. ---
**Author:** ![Kallessa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7993a0/32.png) [@Kallessa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kallessa)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/27 "2004-08-23T23:13:12Z")
I don’t know if it is still around, but for a while a lot of science fiction stories set in the future had humans all the same (more or less) color–golden with almond eyes most often. This was because as humans conquered space, they stopped fighting wars, then cultural and racial barriers melted away and everyone intermarried. Make love, not war! Also, a single government on one planet = bad. Single government over many planets = good. Never could figure that one out. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/28 "2004-08-24T00:48:35Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Well, episodes that hinge on technobabble problems typically do have technobabble solutions, but there were also numerous episodes where the “problem” (such as it was) could be solved easily by a bit of judicious violence but instead the audience is subjected to 49 minutes of hand-wringing, soul-searching and speechifying, i.e. just about every episode of _Voyager_ where doing the right thing means doing the stupid and pointless (but “moral!”) thing. You’re forgetting the other extreme, too - episodes that could have been fixed with last episode’s technological trick. My favorite is “Measure of a Man”. Skip all the horseshit and have someone (ANYONE!) in Star Fleet realize that they are continually disintegrating and reintrgrating people all the time. It’s a damned AnyThingXerox. Put Data on the damned thing, press the button “1000” and then hit the big green button… -Joe ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/29 "2004-08-24T01:55:40Z")
> [@Art Vandelay](#): > > Characters who start out in the “present day”, time travel to a past time period & muck up history as it was already established invariably return to a “present day” that is significantly altered to the characters’ benefit. (e.g. “Back to the Future”, countless “Star Trek” episodes). In the Farscape episode “Different Destinations”, John, Aeryn, D’Argo, Jool, and Stark are visiting a planet to view a peace memorial that you can see into the past with temporal goggles, due to a glitch when Stark uses the goggles, they are pulled back in time, long story short, not only do they _NOT_ fix the timeline at the end of the ep, they’ve made it _worse_ (the peace memorial turns into a memorial of the massacre that took place there after the Moyans screwed it up) [http://www.farscapeworld.com/episodes/review/10305.php](http://www.farscapeworld.com/episodes/review/10305.php) [http://perriverse.dreamhost.com/farscape/episodes/3-3.html#3.5](http://perriverse.dreamhost.com/farscape/episodes/3-3.html#3.5) [http://www.starburstcards.com/KarlswebEpisodeReviews/S-03/S3-05-DD.htm](http://www.starburstcards.com/KarlswebEpisodeReviews/S-03/S3-05-DD.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/30 "2004-08-24T04:25:08Z")
> [@Kallessa](#): > > Also, a single government on one planet = bad. Single government over many planets = good. Never could figure that one out. They tried that. It got cancelled. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/31 "2004-08-24T05:25:14Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > You must not be a very big fan of the ending to the first _Matrix_ movie, then, I take it. You are correct, sir. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/32 "2004-08-24T05:28:39Z")
As far as that theme goes (and in every other respect), I think the second and third Matrix movies are worse than the first. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/33 "2004-08-24T06:30:18Z")
This is more of a “F” than an “SF” trope, but I’m getting a little tired of the alternate dimension that’s a big, swirling void with large, flat-topped rocks with pointy bottoms floating around in it. I always think of them as Dr. Strange dimensions, 'cause that’s where I first remember seeing them, but they appear over and over in other comics and, especially, video games. ---
**Author:** ![Kantalooppi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a5b964/32.png) [@Kantalooppi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kantalooppi)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/34 "2004-08-24T10:58:34Z")
> [@](#): > > And there’s the iron law of alternate history novels: All divergence points inevitably lead to people flying around in zeppelins. I’ve occasionally pondered on that, too. Some other (annoying) recurrent AH themes: Steam cars. No matter who settles America, there’s something very much like United States around. Historical figures who, considering the point of divergence and the history following that, shouldn’t even have been born, exist, and work in professions that are so very **ironic** considering their real-world careers. Elvis Presley gets around a lot this way. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/35 "2004-08-24T12:07:38Z")
Regaring **Dark City** , IU think the Rufus was referring to the Soul so your opinion of that ending depends on whether you thing such a thing can exist. However, I’m pretty sure the OP asked about _minor_ SF/F themes. Here’s one extremely minor point I’ve seen several times in major works of fantasy: the Two Fingers Missing From the Hand: - In the _Chronicles of Thomas Covenant_ by Stephen R. Donaldson, the title character loses the last two finger of his right hand to leperosy. - In _His Dark Materials_ by Phillip Pullman, Will loses the last two fingers of his left hand to the Subtle Knife. - In the _Dark Tower_ by Stephen King, Roland loses the last two fingers of his right hand to a lobstrosity. - In _Tigana_ by Guy Gavriel Kay, wizards get their power from cutting off the two middle fingers from their right hand. - In the _Song of Ice and Fire_ by George R.R. Martin, the Greatjon loses two unspecified fingers to Robb’s direwolf, Grey Wind. I’m pretty sure I’m onto something, here (although maybe I shouldn’t say that, considering some recent posts of mine). Is this a bizzare case of cross-polination, or are they all harkening back to some myth I’m unfamiliar with? ---
**Author:** ![jinty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dbc845/32.png) [@jinty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jinty)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/36 "2004-08-24T12:35:22Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > However, I’m pretty sure the OP asked about _minor_ SF/F themes. Here’s one extremely minor point I’ve seen several times in major works of fantasy: the Two Fingers Missing From the Hand: Heh, that’s pretty good. How about one I noticed in the cinema a couple of months ago: **3 helicopters flying together will come to a sticky end**? Seems to be (c) Roland Emmerich at the moment (Godzilla and The Day after Tomorrow) but I’m sure other SF filmmakers will soon realise the profundity of 3HFTWCTASE and take up the challenge. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/37 "2004-08-24T13:33:46Z")
> [@jinty](#): > > Heh, that’s pretty good. > > How about one I noticed in the cinema a couple of months ago: **3 helicopters flying together will come to a sticky end**? Seems to be (c) Roland Emmerich at the moment (Godzilla and The Day after Tomorrow) but I’m sure other SF filmmakers will soon realise the profundity of 3HFTWCTASE and take up the challenge. 😃 Were there three copters in Independence Day when they decided to try the “Light-Based Communication”? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/38 "2004-08-24T14:03:11Z")
> [@jinty](#): > > Heh, that’s pretty good. > > How about one I noticed in the cinema a couple of months ago: **3 helicopters flying together will come to a sticky end**? Seems to be (c) Roland Emmerich at the moment (Godzilla and The Day after Tomorrow) but I’m sure other SF filmmakers will soon realise the profundity of 3HFTWCTASE and take up the challenge. 😃 Also the three paragliders (think parasailing snowmobiles) in \*The World is Not Enough. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/39 "2004-08-24T14:24:38Z")
Ya ever notice how many really advanced societies operate as monarchies? I always wonder about that. Why would an advanced society choose to wear jump suits? Is there some advance in bathroom technology that makes them practical for everyday use? Where are the black people in the future? And the gays? Notice how everyone uses a ‘credit’ as a currency? I think a ‘coupon’ would sound better. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/40 "2004-08-24T14:42:53Z")
Civilized Aliens. Their home planet is usually ruled by one entire system of government, usually an emperor, instead of by many diverse governments. All the people of the world speak the same language. There’s not even any dialects or differing accents. The architecture for all their cities is the same. There’s no variation in the people’s skin tone to reflect climate. There are no differing hair colors or styles. All clothing styles and fashions are the same worldwide. The entire planet has the same geology. A planet will be entirely desert, ocean, arctic, etc. but rarely have differing climates. Plus, those planets always have some sort of titanic monster the natives continually avoid, until the trademark daring human comes along and manages to kill one with his bare hands. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102.md?page=3)