# Minor, but surprisingly widespread SF&F themes **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 23, 2004, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102 "2004-08-23T16:09:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/61 "2004-08-25T08:04:07Z")
> [@Knowed Out](#): > > Civilized Aliens. > > […]There’s no variation in the people’s skin tone to reflect climate. Except on recent (last decade or so…notably on Voyager) _Star Trek_s, which have multi-racial aliens. (Well, the “human with face putty and some dots” aliens.) However, this can cause some problems of it’s own right…like when the aliens being shown are at a fairly “primitive” level of development, that you wouldn’t think would be very “cosmopolitan.” (I mean, take a time machine back to neolithic European settlement, and tell me how many black or Asian guys you can find in the populace.) And, of course…all the races seem to be perfect analogs of Earth races. You don’t see any dark-skinned aliens with bright red hair, or light-skinned aliens with wooly hair. Or aliens with “asian” facial features, and “blue-black” skin. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/62 "2004-08-25T08:17:50Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Um, you wouldn’t mind clueing in a fellow nerd as to just what episode that is, would you? And by any chance is Delenn involved, too? I ask purely in the interest of science fiction trivia, mind you. Season 2, Episode 19: Divided Loyalties. Don’t get too excited, though: it ain’t exactly overt. I don’t think they actually touch each other at any point in the episode. At least, not on camera. Also on the gay front, _Firefly_’s Inara was professionally bisexual, and in the episode _Heart of Gold_, the brothel employs several male prostitutes. Kaylee wonders aloud (and more than a little hopefully) if they sleep with women, too. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/63 "2004-08-25T08:25:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Um, you wouldn’t mind clueing in a fellow nerd as to just what episode that is, would you? And by any chance is Delenn involved, too? I ask purely in the interest of science fiction trivia, mind you. That would be in [“Divided Loyalties,”](http://www.herald.co.uk/~mel/b5/divloyal.html) the 19th episode of the second season. It’s actually kinda subtle, but obvious at the same time. I’ll try and dig up some screencaps. (They’re worth it. Trust me.) ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/64 "2004-08-25T09:54:44Z")
Trek did the missing finger/gay thing (though not at the same time) James Doohan lost a finger in the Normandy landings apparantly, something that was hidden in the show. And TNG had the episode where Crusher fell in love with a symbiotic being. I think she fell in love with the symbiont inaide because it was put into another (female) body but she still kissed it afterwards. Then one of Riker’s love interests came from a planet where a-sexuality is the norm and anyone who is, presumably, gay or straight is normalised. Riker got down to the planet just in time to find out his “lady” had lost all sexual desire for him 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/65 "2004-08-25T10:13:32Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > That would be in [“Divided Loyalties,”](http://www.herald.co.uk/~mel/b5/divloyal.html) the 19th episode of the second season. It’s actually kinda subtle, but obvious at the same time. I’ll try and dig up some screencaps. (They’re worth it. Trust me.) About a year later, as part of their rebirth and wardrobe change ceremony, Ivanova confessed to Delenn that she was probably in love with Talia. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_B.Phart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Capt\_B.Phart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_B.Phart)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/66 "2004-08-25T13:50:51Z")
I know it’s an obvious cliché, but what I really miss nowadays is _proper_ computers. I mean ones that have lots of flashing lights and talk in a monotonous voice. Ideally they should have their name (e.g. “ **X 2000** ” printed in that [machine-readable font](http://www.fontscape.com/explore?7LH) on the front panel. And they should always respond to a really tricky question by emitting smoke, saying “does not compute” in a higher pitch of monotone - and then explode, thus saving the universe. I guess some themes have had their day ::sigh:: ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/67 "2004-08-25T16:43:43Z")
> [@Pushkin](#): > > And TNG had the episode where Crusher fell in love with a symbiotic being. I think she fell in love with the symbiont inaide because it was put into another (female) body but she still kissed it afterwards. Nope. When she fell for the Trill, the symbiont was in a male body and she didn’t know about the symbiont. The body died so she temporarily put the symbiont inside Riker for a diplomatic mission, and they were all over each other. Afterwards the symbiont was placed in a female host, and Crusher freaked out and dumped her. However, there was a DS9 episode where Jadzia Dax was making out with another female Trill. In their last iteration Dax was male and the other was still female I think. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/68 "2004-08-25T16:56:03Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > In Ricardo Pinto’s _The Chosen_, there are dudes who deliberately cut off some of their fingers. They also blind themselves and cut out their own tongues, if I remember correctly. > > _shudder_ Incredible book, but ooky. Heck, the real-life Yakuza (Japanese mafia) often cut off the tips of their pinkies. So it’s not that far-fetched. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/69 "2004-08-25T17:07:21Z")
That would be “Rejoined” from, I think, Season Five. Or maybe Four. At the time, it was a truly groundbreaking moment. Even though it happened only seven or so years ago, the attitudes towards homosexuals have changed a lot in that time. I remember watching the episode and every time it came back from commercial, there was a black screen saying something along the lines of “Due to the nature of this program and one of its scenes, parents are strongly warned…” for a good five seconds. For all the flak it takes, Trek is and was groundbreaking (Kirk/Uhura, Jadzia/Lenara). In both episodes, none of the characters acted the least bit surprised by anything that was going on and in the latter, the crew of DS9 were even saying things like “I hope they get together”, “Why can’t they be together”, and so on. It was much more overt than what sleeping in the same bed would imply. Of course, there’ve been more than enough episodes where the subject was treated with kid gloves as well. “The Outcast” and “The Host” chief among them. Bleh. ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/70 "2004-08-25T17:25:39Z")
What no mention of the “Super ultra badass weapon/race has one fatal flaw we can exploit”? See: Borg, Death Star, Sauron, etc etc. The fragile world (as I like to call it) the world is incredibly easy to destroy all you need is some type of doomsday weapon and it’s gone. This always annoys me in fantasy novels the badguy has only to open a portal or resurect some demon and the world is destroyed. If it was that easy how come nobody has already done it yet? Evil is always monolithic and significantly outnumbers the good guys. The Race from beyond. There’s always some super race that for some reason just happened to show up now (though there’s ancient ‘legends’ about them being beaten back before in the distant past) in spite of their overwhelming numbers/tech they usually fall pray to my first theme of the fatal flaw. Alien civilizations like to build huge empires then abandon them for some reason leaving behind death traps and puzzles for humans to figure out. People often use swords in the future. God knows why. ---
**Author:** ![Kilt-wearin\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kilt-wearin\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilt-wearin_man)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/71 "2004-08-25T17:44:58Z")
> [@Darkhold](#): > > People often use swords in the future. God knows why. Because swords are cool. Besides, it makes more sense to fight inside a spaceship with swords than to risk shooting holes in the hull with projectile or beam weapons. They work better in some scifi realities. My big peeve is that every race out there lives twice as long as humans. Wookiees, Whatever-the-heck-Yoda-is, Romulans/Vulcans, Klingons, Newcomers, Vorlons, hell, even Kryptonians. You name it. Drives me nuts. And, of course, the one time this trend is reversed, we wind up with Kes on _ST: Voyager_ with her nine-year lifespan - _stupid, stupid idea_! Not only are we supposed to believe that this fully grown, educated, adult woman is two years old, but did they really plan for her to grow elderly and die over the course of the series? “Hey, we’re finally home, but the hot blonde alien we picked up has died of old age…” :rolleyes: No wonder the actress quit. ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/72 "2004-08-25T17:55:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Because swords are cool. Besides, it makes more sense to fight inside a spaceship with swords than to risk shooting holes in the hull with projectile or beam weapons. They work better in some scifi realities. I’ll grant you the ‘swords are cool’ part but even as a little kid I knew that there were many weapons that are deadlier then guns yet have no chance of puncturing a hull. Well at least I’d never go aboard a station made of tinfoil. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/73 "2004-08-25T19:47:57Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > Which stories would these be, exactly? > > _Fan of Zepplins_ Robert Heinlein’s “Job” features a variety of “alternate timelines” (sort of, you have to read the book to understand), some with dirigibles, some without. I recall, a while back, reading a “Doctor Who: New Adventures” book (title of which escapes me) in which the pre-human Silurian race reconquered the Earth. They got around in dirigilbes as well. So that’s two at least. Anyway, these themes may not be “minor”, but they are so inherently ingrained in SF that they generally are never questioned: 1960s / early 1970s era SF: All visions of Earth’s future depict over-sanitized, bland, hyper-technological, sterile, emotionless environments (re: the Illustrated Man, Seconds, 2001) Modern-day SF: All visions of Earth’s future are post-Apocalyptic wastelands filled with semi-tribal bands of hungry scrabblers, monstrous mutant outlaw bikers types, and lone wolf, tortured heroes. (Mad Max, the Terminator, endless X-Men comic book variations on “the Days of Future Past” storyline.) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/74 "2004-08-25T19:55:11Z")
These days, I feel like sci-fi visions of the future always look like _A.I._ ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/75 "2004-08-25T19:56:21Z")
> [@Art Vandelay](#): > > Modern-day SF: All visions of Earth’s future are post-Apocalyptic wastelands filled with semi-tribal bands of hungry scrabblers, monstrous mutant outlaw bikers types, and lone wolf, tortured heroes. (Mad Max, the Terminator, endless X-Men comic book variations on “the Days of Future Past” storyline.) Nah, that’s more like 80’s SF. Nowadays, the future is ryn by huge multinatural corporations, cybernetic gangsters and ludicrously overmarketed media stars. Everybody lives a prosperous yet exceedingly shallow urban life, unless you live in the Third World, where all you can afford is guns. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/76 "2004-08-25T20:07:28Z")
> [@Darkhold](#): > > The Race from beyond. There’s always some super race that for some reason just happened to show up now (though there’s ancient ‘legends’ about them being beaten back before in the distant past) in spite of their overwhelming numbers/tech they usually fall pray to my first theme of the fatal flaw. > > People often use swords in the future. God knows why. Unless it’s lovecraft in which they’ll be back in due time and they’ll be nothing to stop them. It’s only the pre-mature one attempts to bring them back that fail. Swords: Because the slow blade penetrates the shield, duh! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_B.Phart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Capt\_B.Phart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_B.Phart)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/77 "2004-08-26T01:15:13Z")
> [@Darkhold](#): > > People often use swords in the future. God knows why. Because none of the guns in the future are ever fitted with sights, or shoot straight. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/78 "2004-08-26T02:31:15Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > Heck, the real-life Yakuza (Japanese mafia) often cut off the tips of their pinkies. So it’s not that far-fetched. Not _that_ often – it’s only if they really screw up that the fingers start coming off. I’ve never seen a yakuza member with a miss finger, although I don’t see them in person that much. They’re usually in their big cars with the black-tinted windows. (I live in what is, by Japanese standards, a pretty seedy neighborhood.) ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/79 "2004-08-26T02:32:22Z")
Miss_ing_ finger…although I’ve luckily also never seen one carrying around the finger of a young woman! Although if they’d taken one of mine, I’d have an excuse for poor typing. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102/80 "2004-08-26T02:55:42Z")
> [@Art Vandelay](#): > > Modern-day SF: All visions of Earth’s future are post-Apocalyptic wastelands filled with semi-tribal bands of hungry scrabblers, monstrous mutant outlaw bikers types, and lone wolf, tortured heroes. (Mad Max, the Terminator, endless X-Men comic book variations on “the Days of Future Past” storyline.) You forgot the “Blade Runner-style Megacity” future. Anime has raised this vision to a high art. I just can’t wait for the day when city planners actually start having the gaul to put “Neo” or “Mega” in the names of big cities. (Not that it’d always work…can you imagine “MegaTopeka”? 😃 ) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-but-surprisingly-widespread-sf-f-themes/261102.md?page=5)