# Minor plot holes in "Matrix: Reloaded" - care to explain? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 27, 2003, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-plot-holes-in-matrix-reloaded-care-to-explain/177795 "2003-05-27T16:12:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Catalyst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@Catalyst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catalyst)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-plot-holes-in-matrix-reloaded-care-to-explain/177795/41 "2003-05-28T21:02:10Z")
Something nobody’s corrected yet: There have _not_ been six “Ones”; Matrix v1.0 (or maybe it was a beta test. . .) didn’t have a Neo-equivalent. That’s why it went kaboom so quickly. It was after that disaster that the Oracle created the current setup. So Neo is the _fifth_ One. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-plot-holes-in-matrix-reloaded-care-to-explain/177795/42 "2003-05-28T21:06:17Z")
A wizard did it. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-plot-holes-in-matrix-reloaded-care-to-explain/177795/43 "2003-05-28T21:22:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Catalyst \* > Something nobody’s corrected yet: There have _not_ been six “Ones”; Matrix v1.0 (or maybe it was a beta test. . .) didn’t have a Neo-equivalent. That’s why it went kaboom so quickly. It was after that disaster that the Oracle created the current setup. So Neo is the _fifth_ One. No, I believe that this is the sixth Matrix not counting the original. What the Architect actually says is, “I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next. In which case this is the sixth version.” An “integral anomaly” is of course a One, so Neo’s the sixth One. The Architect goes on to say, “this will be the sixth time we have destroyed [Zion].” Remember that the first Matrix would not have had a Zion. Also, the Architect refers to “your five predecessors”. ---
**Author:** ![X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbe5ce/32.png) [@X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/X_Slayer_ALE)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-plot-holes-in-matrix-reloaded-care-to-explain/177795/44 "2003-05-28T21:27:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by istara \* > \*\*Here’s what I don’t get. > > Is Neo actually a human, or is he just a program? > > Were any of those humans-in-pods actually real, or were they all just part of a program (a matrix within a matrix, sort of. Or the reverse)? > > Because if there have been six Neos born, all identical, how are the machines creating those humans-in-pods? Are they cloning them? In which case, why don’t they just stop making the Neo clone? > > I await some grail-legend-derived true blood rubbish in the third film as adumbrated by the “Merovingian” bollox and all the some-what-less-than-subtle “significant” close ups of blood at various places. Probably something to do with computer code and DNA, and man and machine merging, or never actually having been separate species in the first place. \*\* Ok here it is. Neo is human, However the avatar he uses in the Matrix is called “the One” it is actually a diagnostic program that was created by the architect to solve the problem of human emotion regularly crashing the matrix in its present form. The One has higher code and command functions that rival even the oldest AI programs in the matrix. This was done in order to set the myth of the one that will save Zion from destruction and in doing so collect the necesary data for the architect to reload on to the matrix and create the ultimate (crash proof) version. Humans in the pods are produced artificially (go see matrix.2-05.sex.procreation.txt) ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-plot-holes-in-matrix-reloaded-care-to-explain/177795/45 "2003-05-29T21:43:12Z")
I still don’t get it. The human-Neo-in-pod could have just had his avatar permanently removed when he left the Matrix. Why don’t they just cut that particular ex-pod-human’s access as that particular avatar? Is there an implant in his physical brain? And it looks just like the physical human Neo. And like the six previous Neos. Which means that the five/six/whatever previous Neos must have been physical clones, as well as copied-code avatars. And where does the brain stop/avatar AI/code begin? ---
**Author:** ![godzillatemple](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/49beb7/32.png) [@godzillatemple](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godzillatemple)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-plot-holes-in-matrix-reloaded-care-to-explain/177795/46 "2003-06-03T19:04:53Z")
OK, here’s another one… During the freeway chase scene, the bike that Trinity is riding is a Ducati – supposedly a very fast sports bike with awesome acceleration. Now, if we ignore the question as to why the bike would have been fully fueled in the first place, why wasn’t she able to outrun and evade the agents chasing her? Agents may be able to run very fast, but they can only drive as fast as road conditions (including traffic) will allow. When Trinity turned around and started driving against traffic, she should have been able to easily zip out of sight. Instead, the agents quickly pull along side. In fact, it never looked like Trinity was going more than 55-60 mph during the whole chase… Barry ---
**Author:** ![nevermore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a587f6/32.png) [@nevermore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevermore)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-plot-holes-in-matrix-reloaded-care-to-explain/177795/47 "2003-06-03T19:36:04Z")
**istara** , I think you are misinterpreting the whole “five previous Ones” thing. The Ones before him were not Neos. They were different people with the same powers. (Those screens in the Architect’s room were supposed to represent Neo’s thoughts and/or possible reactions–the more screens that depicted a particular thought/reaction, the more likely it was that that thought/reaction would be manifested.) Also, I’m sure this question has been covered in other Matrix threads but, why do the Agents want to destroy Neo, if he is necessary to reboot the system?? ---
**Author:** ![InquisitiveIdiot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3ec8ea/32.png) [@InquisitiveIdiot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InquisitiveIdiot)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-plot-holes-in-matrix-reloaded-care-to-explain/177795/48 "2003-06-03T20:09:21Z")
> [@](#): > > something’s not quite right with the World Ah. So you’re saying the machines are using Zion and Neo as part of an elaborate plan to awaken Aura? Or perhaps draw the wandering AI out of hiding. I hadn’t even thought of that. ---
**Author:** ![Iteki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/eada6e/32.png) [@Iteki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iteki)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-plot-holes-in-matrix-reloaded-care-to-explain/177795/49 "2003-06-03T20:36:51Z")
godzillatemple, IANA motorbike fiend, but perhaps riding with a passenger, a rather old and unlikely used to riding one, made her be more careful? ---
**Author:** ![godzillatemple](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/49beb7/32.png) [@godzillatemple](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godzillatemple)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-plot-holes-in-matrix-reloaded-care-to-explain/177795/50 "2003-06-03T20:43:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Iteki \* > \*\*godzillatemple, IANA motorbike fiend, but perhaps riding with a passenger, a rather old and unlikely used to riding one, made her be more careful? \*\* A passenger who is actually a rather sophisticated program and not a human being. Personally, I think she’d be a bit more concerned with the hail of bullets and being caught by the agents. I think the “real” answer is simply that it would have ruined the scene if she had been able to escape too easily. I’m still wondering why the motorcycle was fully fueled, however… Barry ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-plot-holes-in-matrix-reloaded-care-to-explain/177795/51 "2003-06-03T20:50:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by godzillatemple \* > \*\*A passenger who is actually a rather sophisticated program and not a human being. > > Personally, I think she’d be a bit more concerned with the hail of bullets and being caught by the agents.\*\* Myself, I reckon that crashing was a consideration. There’s no point abducting the Keymaker because you need him only to get him and yourself killed, is there? \*\* > [@](#): > > I’m still wondering why the motorcycle was fully fueled, however…\*\* Who says it was? She only drove a few miles; it could have had maybe a gallon in the tank. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-plot-holes-in-matrix-reloaded-care-to-explain/177795/52 "2003-06-03T23:44:27Z")
I thought of a plot hole today, and I have been unable to explain it away. Someone please help me! Morpheus, Trinity, and the Keymaker are escaping from the Twins. Where are are they going? To an exit! And just what do they plan to do there? They can’t take the Keymaker with them - he’s a program. And it’s the Keymaker that the Twins are after. The only explanation I can come up with for this seemingly flawed plan is maybe they intend to get to the exit, jump out of the Matrix and into the Construct, grab a few guns, jump back into the Matrix, and hope they made it in time to protect the Keymaker. ---
**Author:** ![Netbrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71e660/32.png) [@Netbrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Netbrian)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-plot-holes-in-matrix-reloaded-care-to-explain/177795/53 "2003-06-03T23:58:07Z")
Achernar: Couldn’t they just put the keymaker in the construct for a bit? Certainly would be safer there. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-plot-holes-in-matrix-reloaded-care-to-explain/177795/54 "2003-06-04T00:45:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by godzillatemple \* > \*\* > > Third off, I have, alas, only seen the movie once. The new wife says if I want to see it again I have to wait for it to come out on DVD (long story, but it was part of the negotiation that allowed me to purchase the 47" wide screen TV I wanted). \*\* Lots of good answers here. I just wanted to say my condolences for your wife. May your divorce be amicable and happen before kids arrive. Sheesh, if my husband tried to tell me how many times I could see a movie, he sure wouldn’t be my husband. That’s the mark of a real control freak. Eq ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-plot-holes-in-matrix-reloaded-care-to-explain/177795/55 "2003-06-04T00:58:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Also, I’m sure this question has been covered in other Matrix threads but, why do the Agents want to destroy Neo, if he is necessary to reboot the system?? The Agents don’t know that. As far as they know, they’re supposed to kill Neo. However, the Architect knows that they won’t be able to because the One has powers beyond the Agents. Thus, the purpose of the Agents is to give the inhabitants of Zion something to fight against to keep up the illusion of their struggle. What I want to know is what would have happened if Cypher had succeeded in killing Neo in the first movie. Would another One arise? Or, if Zion is another layer of the Matrix, did the Architect or someone bring Tank back to life for a while just to save Neo? ---
**Author:** ![godzillatemple](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/49beb7/32.png) [@godzillatemple](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godzillatemple)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-plot-holes-in-matrix-reloaded-care-to-explain/177795/56 "2003-06-04T01:54:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Equipoise \* > \*\*Lots of good answers here. I just wanted to say my condolences for your wife. May your divorce be amicable and happen before kids arrive. > > Sheesh, if my husband tried to tell me how many times I could see a movie, he sure wouldn’t be my husband. That’s the mark of a real control freak. > > Eq \*\* No, you misunderstood. In order to justify getting the wide screen TV, I promised that I would only see movies in the theater once and then get them on DVD to rewatch. She now holds me to the promise which I made willingly in the first place. Barry ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-plot-holes-in-matrix-reloaded-care-to-explain/177795/57 "2003-06-04T07:25:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by godzillatemple \* > \*\*No, you misunderstood. In order to justify getting the wide screen TV, I promised that I would only see movies in the theater once and then get them on DVD to rewatch. She now holds me to the promise which I made willingly in the first place. > > Barry \*\* Ok. I really had no business commenting, I realize that. Things like that make me see red. I hang out on a couple of Home Theater forums and they even have a name for it, WAF (“Wife Acceptance Factor”). They way some of these guys describe their wives makes me want to scream. Not how they describe it, but what they say. The wives say no, I wear the pants in the family, to this and maybe, if you’re a good little puppy dog to that and I think a) damn these guys are pussy-whipped and b) damn those women sound like real hoity-toity bitches. Maybe it’s because I love movies and want as much tech to watch those movies as possible. Having a Home Theater (ceiling-mounted projector) setup in my living room is more important to me than if House Beautiful is going to be stopping by that day. That also goes along with sneering at Architectural Digest type photo spreads where people pretend they don’t have TV sets. Give me Home Theater magazine any day, where people KNOW what their priorities are, and aren’t afraid to spend money for it and show it off :). So, are you going to have to put it down in the family room out of sight? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![godzillatemple](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/49beb7/32.png) [@godzillatemple](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godzillatemple)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-plot-holes-in-matrix-reloaded-care-to-explain/177795/58 "2003-06-04T11:13:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Equipoise \* > \*\*So, are you going to have to put it down in the family room out of sight? 😃 \*\* Actually, we just bought a townhouse with a very small living room and a decent-sized basement. I am converting half the basement to my “entertainment room.” I wouldn’t really call it “out of sight” – it’s simply the only space available for a wide screen TV. So… how about them plot holes? 😉 Barry ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-plot-holes-in-matrix-reloaded-care-to-explain/177795/59 "2003-06-04T11:42:38Z")
[quote] What I want to know is what would have happened if Cypher had succeeded in killing Neo in the first movie. Would another One arise? Or, if Zion is another layer of the Matrix, did the Architect or someone bring Tank back to life for a while just to save Neo? [quote] He couldn’t. Don’t your remember, Cypher himself said that if Neo was the One, then he couldn’t be killed. And then when Cypher was about to blast him he got executed, with a look of stunned incredulity on his face. The ONE _cannot_ be stopped from entering the Source. The choices have already been made, they must merely be understood. And of course this is The World. The machines finally got themselves ouut of there. Didn’t you know the first Matrix was simply an upgraded MMORPG. 🙂 Infinite ressuraction capability, no level cap, and you can acually have sex with that Elven wizard chick you’ve been pulling to. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-plot-holes-in-matrix-reloaded-care-to-explain/177795/60 "2003-06-04T19:12:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Netbrian \* > Achernar: Couldn’t they just put the keymaker in the construct for a bit? Certainly would be safer there. Oh… can they do that? It would be handy, to be sure, but the Construct exists in their own computers, and the Keymaker exists in the Matrix. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-plot-holes-in-matrix-reloaded-care-to-explain/177795.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/minor-plot-holes-in-matrix-reloaded-care-to-explain/177795.md?page=4)