# Miracle at Garabandal **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 18, 2005, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-at-garabandal/312955 "2005-07-18T07:45:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Inquisitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c4cdca/32.png) [@Inquisitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inquisitor)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-at-garabandal/312955/1 "2005-07-18T07:45:11Z")
Hi guys, The “miracle” ar Garabandal is interesting because the claims of what allegedly took place there have been backed by a fairly empirical measure. Conchita Gonzales claims that she knows the exact date in which a major miracle will take place, and she will give the world 8 days notice prior to this happening. I am just wondering if there are any other “miracles” that the world is currently ‘waiting on’ with these kinds of empirical measures to back them? Have there been any (recent times) miracles that were just as or more popular than this one, but events that were supposedly going to unfold on certain dates, never did? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-at-garabandal/312955/2 "2005-07-18T08:25:34Z")
> [@Inquisitor](#): > > Hi guys, > > The “miracle” ar Garabandal is interesting because the claims of what allegedly took place there have been backed by a fairly empirical measure. The signal-to-noise ratio seems quite poor on ‘Garabandal’ as a google parameter; any chance you could sort the wheat from the chaff and provide an informative link as to what is actually being claimed to have happened? ---
**Author:** ![Inquisitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c4cdca/32.png) [@Inquisitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inquisitor)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-at-garabandal/312955/3 "2005-07-18T09:16:21Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > The signal-to-noise ratio seems quite poor on ‘Garabandal’ as a google parameter; any chance you could sort the wheat from the chaff and provide an informative link as to what is actually being claimed to have happened? [http://www.endtimesreport.com/prophecy\_docs/garabandal.html](http://www.endtimesreport.com/prophecy_docs/garabandal.html) ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-at-garabandal/312955/4 "2005-07-18T11:04:02Z")
> [@Inquisitor](#): > > The “miracle” ar Garabandal is interesting because the claims of what allegedly took place there have been backed by a fairly empirical measure. I’ve read that link. It’s subjective blather. Some women claimed some vague thing would happen on a particular date, then a few years later claimed to have been told some vague things by some presence no one else saw. Am I missing something here? > [@](#): > > I am just wondering if there are any other “miracles” that the world is currently ‘waiting on’ with these kinds of empirical measures to back them? Well, [there’s this](http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49973): > [@TC Albin](#): > > I affirm that it is my claim that some time between 12:00 am and 11:59 pm on July 27th of [2005] it will snow in Oakland California as a result of my desire for it to do so. The Oakland California being referred to is in fact across the bay from San Francisco. I confirm that the snow in question will be entirely of meteorological origin and will not be artificial. Only 9 days to go till Mr Albin wins the JREF million! Or then again maybe not. ---
**Author:** ![Inquisitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c4cdca/32.png) [@Inquisitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inquisitor)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-at-garabandal/312955/5 "2005-07-18T11:35:02Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I’ve read that link. It’s subjective blather. Some women claimed some vague thing would happen on a particular date, then a few years later claimed to have been told some vague things by some presence no one else saw. > > Am I missing something here? Yes. While the girls were receiving these messages, they entered trance-like states in which they were pricked with needles and had bright lights shone in their eyes - to which they did not respond. They were told that the next Pope would only serve a short reign, which is exactly what happened. Conchita Gonzales claims she was told the exact date the miracle will happen, and she will warn the world 8 days beforehand. If she dies before this happens, obviously the ‘miracle’ will get exposed. That was over 40 years ago. She’s still alive. I’m not saying I believe in this “miracle”, nor am I trying to convince others. The point is, this is a quite a famous case amongst miracle believers, due to the circumstances attached to it. I am trying to find out if there are any other such cases that gained similar or greater notoriety, that had some kind of emperical test attached to it, but was exposed and amounted to nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-at-garabandal/312955/6 "2005-07-18T12:56:41Z")
As far as I can tell, in every single year for as far back as we can possibly determine, some individual or group has stated publicly that the world was about to come to an end. Many of these groups sold all their possessions and gathered at a designated place to wait for the end to arrive. Some more than once. Needless to say, the world spins merrily onward. But there are hundreds of these documented if you care to search for them. Somehow, the miracle believers manage to let these events slip right past them. Probably through the large holes in their heads. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-at-garabandal/312955/7 "2005-07-18T13:41:13Z")
> [@Inquisitor](#): > > Yes. > > While the girls were receiving these messages, they entered trance-like states in which they were pricked with needles and had bright lights shone in their eyes - to which they did not respond. So they entered what appears to be a genuine trance of some sort; that doesn’t necessarily mean anything they say when they come out of it is worth listening to. > [@](#): > > They were told that the next Pope would only serve a short reign, which is exactly what happened. I assume we’re talking about John Paul I? That’s a fairly safe bet; most popes are bordering on elderly when they are elected; ‘short’ is incredibly vague; it would still have been considered ‘short’ if it had been five years(that’s the sort of vague prognostication used by cold readers); they got pretty lucky with that prediction though. > [@](#): > > I am trying to find out if there are any other such cases that gained similar or greater notoriety, that had some kind of emperical test attached to it, but was exposed and amounted to nothing. Fair enough; _The Watchtower_ (the Jehovah’s Witness’ publication) predicted the end of the world, then tried to recover from the failed prediction by offering a revised date. (more than once, if I recall correctly). ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-at-garabandal/312955/8 "2005-07-18T13:51:52Z")
> [@Inquisitor](#): > > They were told that the next Pope would only serve a short reign, which is exactly what happened. No, what Conchita Gonzales actually claimed was that they had been told the rather vaguer information that one of the three popes after John XXIII would reign for only a short time. Not so impressive, is it? Moreover, she claimed this in the context of her prediction that [there would be only three popes after John XXIII](http://www.garabandal.com/news/news2.htm)… ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-at-garabandal/312955/9 "2005-07-18T14:04:21Z")
> [@APB](#): > > Moreover, she claimed this in the context of her prediction that [there would be only three popes after John XXIII](http://www.garabandal.com/news/news2.htm)… [Oops, scratch that miracle](http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/index.htm). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Inquisitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c4cdca/32.png) [@Inquisitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inquisitor)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-at-garabandal/312955/10 "2005-07-18T14:23:26Z")
My references are telling me that she was told that there would be only three more Popes before the _End Days_, not three more Popes, period. ---
**Author:** ![Inquisitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c4cdca/32.png) [@Inquisitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inquisitor)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-at-garabandal/312955/11 "2005-07-18T15:40:51Z")
Yep, In the video “Garabandal - The Eyewitnesses”, which was made before the recent passing of John Paul II, it is clearly stated that there will be three more Popes before the End Days, but “not the end of times”. Video is available for download: [http://www.catholicwebcast.com/](http://www.catholicwebcast.com/) ---
**Author:** ![Inquisitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c4cdca/32.png) [@Inquisitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inquisitor)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-at-garabandal/312955/12 "2005-07-18T15:53:04Z")
Oops, other way around. After three Peopes, it would be the “end times”. ---
**Author:** ![Inquisitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c4cdca/32.png) [@Inquisitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inquisitor)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-at-garabandal/312955/13 "2005-07-18T16:00:21Z")
Another prophecy revealled to the girls was that blind man Joey Lomangino ([http://www.tldm.org/news6/lomangino.htm](http://www.tldm.org/news6/lomangino.htm)), who visited Garabandal in the 60s, would have his eyesight restored by a miracle during his lifetime. He was born in 1928. He’s still alive, too, at 77. So, suffice to say, this is not some “here we go again” claim of a miracle. There are interesting facts associated with this case, it must be conceded. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-at-garabandal/312955/14 "2005-07-18T16:04:43Z")
According to the link provided by APB: > [@](#): > > When the bells tolled in the village church of Garabandal on the day Pope John died, Conchita said to her mother, Aniceta, “The Pope is dead. Now there will be only three more.” Aniceta reproved her, “How do you know that” Why do you say such silly things?” Conchita answered, “The Virgin told it to me.” When asked by another person what it meant, if it meant the end of the world, she replied, “I don’t know what will happen, only that three Popes remain.” That looks like three more popes. Not three popes and then a fourth who will see the end-times, but three more popes. Period. Based on what you’re saying another site is saying, I’d say the goalposts are already being moved, which is not atypical for future prediction type miracles. The site in his link goes on to say: > [@](#): > > Since John Paul II is the third Pope, he automatically becomes the one to whom this prophecy refers. And while we don’t know the date of the Miracle – only Conchita knows that – **what we do know is that it will occur within John Paul’s lifetime.** Hence my “Oops” above. What do you think they’ll tell us when Benedictus XVI bites the dust before the miracle happens? I’m guessing it will be something like “Well, the end times did begin during his reign, but they take time, and are still in process. You just haven’t noticed them yet” or something similar. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-at-garabandal/312955/15 "2005-07-18T16:08:34Z")
> [@Inquisitor](#): > > Another prophecy revealled to the girls was that blind man Joey Lomangino ([Will Our Lady of the Roses soon restore Joey Lomangino’s eyesight at the Shrine?](http://www.tldm.org/news6/lomangino.htm)), who visited Garabandal in the 60s, would have his eyesight restored by a miracle during his lifetime. He was born in 1928. He’s still alive, too, at 77. > > So, suffice to say, this is not some “here we go again” claim of a miracle. There are interesting facts associated with this case, it must be conceded. As far as I know, he’s still blind, so no, it doesn’t have to be conceded that there are interesting facts associated with the case. I’ll make a prediction right now. Joey Lomangino will be blind when he dies. If this comes to pass, did I perform a miracle? ---
**Author:** ![Inquisitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c4cdca/32.png) [@Inquisitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inquisitor)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-at-garabandal/312955/16 "2005-07-18T16:16:50Z")
If Joey Lomangino dies blind, this discussion becomes mute. He’s had over 40 years to die and make this discussion mute. As for the “how many more Popes?” line of questioning, if you read enough sources, you will see many (in fact, most) that explictly state that there will not be just three more Popes “period”, and they are sources that were established _before_ the passing of John Paul II. ---
**Author:** ![Inquisitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c4cdca/32.png) [@Inquisitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inquisitor)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-at-garabandal/312955/17 "2005-07-18T16:18:35Z")
So no, no “moving of goalposts” at all. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-at-garabandal/312955/18 "2005-07-18T16:28:01Z")
> [@Inquisitor](#): > > If Joey Lomangino dies blind, this discussion becomes mute. He’s had over 40 years to die and make this discussion mute. Moot. Not mute, moot. The OP is striking me more and more as thinly-disguised proselytizing wrapped in the guise of a GQ about other supposed “pending miracles.” ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-at-garabandal/312955/19 "2005-07-18T16:38:49Z")
> [@Inquisitor](#): > > I am just wondering if there are any other “miracles” that the world is currently ‘waiting on’ with these kinds of empirical measures to back them? Have there been any (recent times) miracles that were just as or more popular than this one, but events that were supposedly going to unfold on certain dates, never did? Getting back to the actual question of the OP, sure, there are tons of predictions (I think they hardly deserve being coined as miracles when they haven’t even come true) that are currently set in the future, and thus can not yet be falsified. Pick any “psychic”, such as Sylvia Brown and read their yearly predictions. As for ones that have been highly popular (I read that as widely known, as I don’t know how else you’d assign popularity) and didn’t unfold, Benny Hinn probably deserves an entire thread of his own. > [@Benny Hinn](#): > > “The Lord also tells me to tell you, in mid 90s, about '94 or '95, no later than that, God will destroy the homosexual community of America. But He will not destroy it with what many minds have thought Him to be. He will destroy it with fire. And many will turn and be saved, and many will rebel and be destroyed.” > [@Benny Hinn](#): > > “The Spirit tells me, Fidel Castro will die in the 90’s. Oh my. Some will try to kill him and they will not succeed. But there will come a change in his physical health, and he will not stay in power. And Cuba will be visited of God. I will visit Cuba. Oh. Oh. Holy Spirit do you mean he’ll die physically? What do you mean, Holy Spirit? Tell me please. My. Oh. Holy Spirit just said to me, it could be worse than any death you can imagine. There’s some question in my spirit on what kind of death the Lord means. I’m not sure. I see him. Uh. I see Cas, I, I see Castro bent over behind bars. I don’t know what that means.” There are thousands and thousands of predictions that have been made and never came to pass. I’m not aware of a single, precisely detailed prediction that has come true in my lifetime. Does that answer the question? ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-at-garabandal/312955/20 "2005-07-18T16:49:40Z")
> [@Inquisitor](#): > > If Joey Lomangino dies blind, this discussion becomes mute. He’s had over 40 years to die and make this discussion mute. He’s also had over 40 years to regain his vision, which would have made this discussion (at least that one particular part of it) moot. Not only does the Lord move in mysterious ways, he also takes his time, apparently. > [@](#): > > As for the “how many more Popes?” line of questioning, if you read enough sources, you will see many (in fact, most) that explictly state that there will not be just three more Popes “period”, and they are sources that were established _before_ the passing of John Paul II. If multiple sources, who all **want** the Garabandal predictions to be true, can’t even agree on how to parse the predictions, we have a problem There are many sources, such as [this](http://www.ourlady.ca/info/THE_THREE_POPES_AND_GARAB.htm), which are quite obvious in their attempt to redefine exactly what the prophecy meant once JP II passed away. By the way, I’m starting to get the impression that you’re simply using this forum as an attempt to “witness”, which, while allowed on the boards, is supposed to be in Great Debates. Was that your intent, or did you really want a debunking of similar past predictions? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-at-garabandal/312955.md?page=2)