# Miracle Cross? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 11, 2015, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-cross/730681 "2015-09-11T16:58:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-cross/730681/1 "2015-09-11T16:58:47Z")
OK, (I suppose I this could be yet another pitting of Fox News) but I’ve noticed news channel running a [before/after pic of the Ground Zero Cross](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/68/ff/b3/68ffb39938fd981fa11c90a909d7fdc9.jpg) Is it just me, or do they not realize this is obviously not the same cross? From what I can tell this is [the original cross.](http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/10/article-2577407-1C2AF3E100000578-789_634x818.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-cross/730681/2 "2015-09-11T17:19:40Z")
Wikipedia’s entry on [**the trade-centre cross**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_cross). ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-cross/730681/3 "2015-09-14T11:44:17Z")
Thank you Obi Wan. …except Wikipedia makes no reference to the pictures in my OP but thanks for playing. Maybe I wasn’t clear in the OP but in the first link, the cross on the left is not the one used in the memorial. ---
**Author:** ![Spud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spud/32/347_2.png) [@Spud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spud)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-cross/730681/4 "2015-09-14T15:47:15Z")
> [@Sparky812](#): > > Maybe I wasn’t clear in the OP but in the first link, the cross on the left is not the one used in the memorial. I’m getting a bit confused here… the one on the left of your first link also is clearly not the same as the one in your “from what I can tell” original cross. Notice the orientation of the vertical I beam. The after (right) picture in the link matches the one in your “from what I can tell” second link pretty closely. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-cross/730681/5 "2015-09-14T16:44:09Z")
Why…it’s almost as if there were THOUSANDS of different spots where two beams crossed each other at right angles! ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-cross/730681/6 "2015-09-14T16:52:10Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Why…it’s almost as if there were THOUSANDS of different spots where two beams crossed each other at right angles! If a giant Star of David showed up intact in the wreckage – that would be a miracle. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-cross/730681/7 "2015-09-14T17:25:43Z")
> [@Sparky812](#): > > Maybe I wasn’t clear in the OP but in the first link, the cross on the left is not the one used in the memorial. > [@Sparky812](#): > > Thank you Obi Wan. > > …except Wikipedia makes no reference to the pictures in my OP but thanks for playing. Your post kicking off your trainwreck contains no reference as to what you are talking about, period. Not everyone’s existence revolves around two beams meeting at right angles, thereby demanding a religious name, any more than everyone’s life revolves around miracle sticky buns and burnt toast. Your post is parochialism at its worst. My post supplies everything yours lacks. Like WTF you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-cross/730681/8 "2015-09-14T17:55:28Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Why…it’s almost as if there were THOUSANDS of different spots where two beams crossed each other at right angles! According to my calculations, there were precisely six-hundred and sixty-six. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-cross/730681/9 "2015-09-14T18:42:59Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > If a giant Star of David showed up intact in the wreckage – that would be a miracle. In NYC? ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-cross/730681/10 "2015-09-14T19:29:15Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > According to my calculations, there were precisely six-hundred and sixty-six. “No, Ray! Nobody Ever made them like this! I mean, the architect was either a certified genius or an authentic wacko…!” -Ghost Busters ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-cross/730681/11 "2015-09-14T20:38:04Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > According to my calculations, there were precisely six-hundred and sixty-six. WTF!??! According to my calculations, there were precisely six-hundred and sixteen. Hmm? Perhaps a translation error. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-cross/730681/12 "2015-09-15T18:43:22Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > Your post kicking off your trainwreck contains no reference as to what you are talking about, period. Not everyone’s existence revolves around two beams meeting at right angles, thereby demanding a religious name, any more than everyone’s life revolves around miracle sticky buns and burnt toast. > > Your post is parochialism at its worst. > > My post supplies everything yours lacks. Like WTF you’re talking about. Whoosh? WTF are you on about, son? This ain’t about finding Jesus’ image in the back of your drawers, it’s about an error in picture selection that ran over several media sources unchecked. Since this is MPSIMS, I felt like pointing it out. That’s it. I don’t have to, but I’ll clarify things for you. FOX News (among others) posted a story regarding the “Miracle Cross” AKA **World Trade Center cross** , also known as the \*\*Ground Zero cross \*\*discussingit’s discovery, preservation, relocation, memorialization, and yes, it’s controversy. During the story, they repeatedly ran [this picture](http://www.refiningtruth.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/ground-zero-cross.jpg) , a side by side [before and after pic](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/68/ff/b3/68ffb39938fd981fa11c90a909d7fdc9.jpg) and more pictures of the current memorial. ``` The point is, how could anyone miss that those are not the same "two beams meeting at right angles", especially, when any dumbass can pull up the Wiki page and see in the image provided that the beams are not the same ones as the memorial nor any other image of the "cross". ``` I find it hilarious that someone did that much “factual” research for their story, ran with the wrong picture, others picked it up, shared it, and didn’t notice either. That’s it! YMMV ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-cross/730681/13 "2015-09-15T19:36:24Z")
Not everyone in the entire world gets or watches or wants to get or watch Fox Fucking News. The OP is without a frame of reference, so I supplied one. Outside the U.S., the World Trade Center isn’t a cultural icon like fucking Christmas. The reason for the link began and ended there. Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-cross/730681/14 "2015-09-15T20:08:38Z")
Maybe y’all hate Sparky for reasons I don’t know about, or simply have knee-jerk reactions to anything “religious”, but he has a valid point. Whatever one may think of the “WTC cross”, if Fox is showing that linked image as “before and after”, then they are stupid, because it clearly is not the same. It shows Fox can’t even get simple facts correct. It also shows that the “true cross-ness” is imaginary. If there were so many “crosses” in the rubble that even the true believers can’t keep them straight, then maybe (just maybe!) God had nothing to do with the cross being left as a “sign” (of what, exactly was never said), and it’s actually just two pieces of metal with no significance. But don’t mention that to Fox viewers - they’ll get upset. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-cross/730681/15 "2015-09-15T20:09:31Z")
Knock it off. No more sniping. If you want to discuss things in a civilized manner go ahead. If not take it to the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-cross/730681/16 "2015-09-16T11:27:38Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > Not everyone in the entire world gets or watches or wants to get or watch Fox Fucking News. The OP is without a frame of reference, so I supplied one. Outside the U.S., the World Trade Center isn’t a cultural icon like fucking Christmas. The reason for the link began and ended there. Jesus. FTR, I don’t watch FOX News, I am not religious, I am not American nor do I live in the US. It was on the anniversary of 9/11 and the story came across my web news feeds several times. You can take your assumptions and move along. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Maybe y’all hate Sparky for reasons I don’t know about, or simply have knee-jerk reactions to anything “religious”, but he has a valid point. > > Whatever one may think of the “WTC cross”, if Fox is showing that linked image as “before and after”, then they are stupid, because it clearly is not the same. It shows Fox can’t even get simple facts correct. > > It also shows that the “true cross-ness” is imaginary. If there were so many “crosses” in the rubble that even the true believers can’t keep them straight, then maybe (just maybe!) God had nothing to do with the cross being left as a “sign” (of what, exactly was never said), and it’s actually just two pieces of metal with no significance. But don’t mention that to Fox viewers - they’ll get upset. Exactly. Thank you. It’s probably as simple as they googled for an image then picked the first result without even looking at the details. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miracle-cross/730681/17 "2015-09-16T12:33:21Z")
If this is a “genuine” “holy” “relic”, then God clearly got the shit beaten out of him that day, and a big taste of hellfire too. The conclusion it leads me to is that Christians picked the wrong team to root for.