# Mirror, mirror...\[Did vanity exist before mirrors?\] **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 3, 2017, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mirror-mirror-did-vanity-exist-before-mirrors/781293 "2017-03-03T14:28:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![2Bits](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e95f7d/32.png) [@2Bits](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2Bits)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mirror-mirror-did-vanity-exist-before-mirrors/781293/1 "2017-03-03T14:28:46Z")
Did vanity exist before mirrors (or whatever other reflective thingamajigs were used specifically for the purpose of looking at ourselves?) ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mirror-mirror-did-vanity-exist-before-mirrors/781293/2 "2017-03-03T14:34:09Z")
Is this really GQ? Common sense says that some early humans were told they looked good and began to become vain. Narcissus fell in love with his own reflection in water. ---
**Author:** ![2Bits](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e95f7d/32.png) [@2Bits](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2Bits)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mirror-mirror-did-vanity-exist-before-mirrors/781293/3 "2017-03-03T14:39:20Z")
[QUOTE=Narcissus fell in love with his own reflection in water.[/QUOTE] Any non-mythical examples to cite? My uncommon sense tells me my pre-mirror ancestors didn’t spend much time hunched over a still pond combing their hair.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mirror-mirror-did-vanity-exist-before-mirrors/781293/4 "2017-03-03T14:39:48Z")
The story of the Emperor’s New Clothes was considered credible enough that people understood the concept, although the emperor seemed to have no idea what he really looked like. A truth told by a mirror can be denied, the same as any other truth you do not wish to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mirror-mirror-did-vanity-exist-before-mirrors/781293/5 "2017-03-03T14:46:58Z")
This doesn’t seem to me to be a GQ. Thread title edited to indicate subject. Please use descriptive thread titles. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mirror-mirror-did-vanity-exist-before-mirrors/781293/6 "2017-03-03T14:51:57Z")
> [@2Bits](#): > > My uncommon sense tells me my pre-mirror ancestors didn’t spend much time hunched over a still pond combing their hair.🙂 What does that have to do with vanity? In [modern](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f5/79/54/f5795440fd01c666f91b461c7023bf83.jpg) [primitive](http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/04/07/10/24AA81A200000578-3027200-image-a-2_1428400670844.jpg) [societies](http://www.amazon-indians.org/matis-video-collage2.jpg), people engage in elaborate displays including costumes and makeup. Vanity has unquestionably existed since modern humans evolved. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mirror-mirror-did-vanity-exist-before-mirrors/781293/7 "2017-03-03T14:57:34Z")
I think the OP raises a valid point. Before mirrors existed, it was difficult to look at yourself directly. It could be done with things like still water or other shiny surfaces but the image was poor. So vain people had to go through an intermediary; you had to have other people tell you you looked good. While a vain person got affirmation from that, it still required the acknowledgement that other people’s opinions mattered. You were beautiful but it was other people who got to enjoy your beauty. Mirrors turned vanity into narcissism. Beauty became a closed system. You could have beauty and you could admire your own beauty. Other people were no longer necessary to you. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mirror-mirror-did-vanity-exist-before-mirrors/781293/8 "2017-03-03T15:02:42Z")
Decorative items/adornments and paint indications show up as grave goods much earlier than mirrors seem to exist so I would say very likely yes. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mirror-mirror-did-vanity-exist-before-mirrors/781293/9 "2017-03-04T04:26:06Z")
For what it’s worth, the ancient Romans had “mirrors”, but they were only smooth metal surfaces, not glass. So a Roman could see an image of himself if he was rich enough to afford one, but it wouldn’t be the same clarity as a glass mirror. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mirror-mirror-did-vanity-exist-before-mirrors/781293/10 "2017-03-04T04:58:40Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > … but they were only smooth metal surfaces … it wouldn’t be the same clarity as a glass mirror. But a glass mirror requires a smooth metal surface to give a reflection. A tin mirror can give just as good a reflection as glass with a tin backing. The advantage of glass is that it stops the metal from getting tarnished or scratched. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mirror-mirror-did-vanity-exist-before-mirrors/781293/11 "2017-03-04T07:03:43Z")
Stone Age people had mirrors of darkened polished wood. Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk Pro ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mirror-mirror-did-vanity-exist-before-mirrors/781293/12 "2017-03-04T16:42:26Z")
> [@2Bits](#): > > Any non-mythical examples to cite? My uncommon sense tells me my pre-mirror ancestors didn’t spend much time hunched over a still pond combing their hair.🙂 The mere existence and continuity of the myth implies it was saying something about human nature that the people of the time thought was worth commenting on. Which to me is QED that vanity dates to near the beginning of humanity rather than it being a recent invention. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mirror-mirror-did-vanity-exist-before-mirrors/781293/13 "2017-03-04T19:03:22Z")
Sure it did. “People tell me I’m beautiful all the time, much more than they say to anyone else.”