# Miscarriage of Justice Omnibus Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 4, 2021, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscarriage-of-justice-omnibus-thread/943643 "2021-06-04T20:52:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2024, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscarriage-of-justice-omnibus-thread/943643/342 "2024-07-18T20:57:46Z")
Anyone know what her crimes in prison were? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2024, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscarriage-of-justice-omnibus-thread/943643/343 "2024-07-18T21:07:24Z")
There is a little info in here: [https://apnews.com/article/missouri-sandra-hemme-conviction-overturned-killing-0aa17f2a099f5e6a37dcbd0f543558f3](https://apnews.com/article/missouri-sandra-hemme-conviction-overturned-killing-0aa17f2a099f5e6a37dcbd0f543558f3) > The attorney general’s office, which almost always objects to wrongful conviction claims, then asked the appellate court to reconsider, saying the court didn’t give them enough time to argue against her release. Bailey’s office also argued that Hemme was sentenced decades ago to 12 years for violence in prison, and she would start serving that penalty now. Her attorneys responded Tuesday that keeping her incarcerated any longer would be a “draconian outcome.” But all it says is “violence”. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2024, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscarriage-of-justice-omnibus-thread/943643/344 "2024-07-18T21:10:42Z")
I would think that the twelve years for violence should be counted against the four decades she’s already served. In other words, she should be immediately released. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2024, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscarriage-of-justice-omnibus-thread/943643/345 "2024-07-18T21:11:59Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I would think that the twelve years for violence should be counted against the four decades she’s already served. Absolutely. I would also say that she might not have committed those acts if not falsely imprisoned for decades. Sticking a person in prison is a good way of making them a criminal. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2024, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscarriage-of-justice-omnibus-thread/943643/346 "2024-07-18T21:12:36Z")
No, she would not have committed those acts, because she wouldn’t have been in prison. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscarriage-of-justice-omnibus-thread/943643/347 "2024-08-11T19:06:21Z")
Reposting something I posted earlier in the [Omnibus Stupid MFers in the news thread (Part 2)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-stupid-mfers-in-the-news-thread-part-2/995657). [Gift link](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/09/nyregion/arvell-marshall-surveillance-video-exoneration.html?unlocked_article_code=1.CE4.JMhv.rzIO2lDam7nQ&smid=url-share) to New York Time article about the overturning of the 2009 murder conviction of [Arvel Marshall](http://www.brooklynda.org/2024/08/09/brooklyn-district-attorney-moves-to-vacate-conviction-of-brooklyn-man-who-served-16-years-for-homicide-after-critical-video-wasnt-turned-over/). During the trial, he repeated asked his attorney, prosecutors and the judge for the surveillance videos that he felt would prove his innocence. They first denied that video existed and then denied his request. After being jailed for _sixteen years_ (the conviction was for 25 years to life), he was finally released and the video did, in fact, show the murderer was not him. So he served sixteen years for something done by someone clearly not him. Meanwhile their punishment for gross negligence is what, exactly? Nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscarriage-of-justice-omnibus-thread/943643/348 "2024-08-11T19:48:06Z")
So the prosecution had the video, and just didn’t bother watching it? Convenient that this overturning happened a month after the judge in the original case retired. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscarriage-of-justice-omnibus-thread/943643/349 "2024-08-11T20:13:34Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > So the prosecution had the video, and just didn’t bother watching it? That’s the generous hypothesis ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscarriage-of-justice-omnibus-thread/943643/350 "2024-08-11T21:22:10Z")
There really need to be laws that revoke qualified immunity in cases like this. Retired or not, that judge and the prosecutors who ignored the evidence need to be sued/fined out of existence. Then punished severely. No statute of limitations, either. You fuck up like that, your entire bloodline should pay. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscarriage-of-justice-omnibus-thread/943643/351 "2024-08-11T22:11:43Z")
I agree with that. There should be some standard of gross misconduct or negligence where qualified immunity evaporates. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscarriage-of-justice-omnibus-thread/943643/352 "2024-08-11T22:25:57Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > I agree with that. There should be some standard of gross misconduct or negligence where qualified immunity evaporates. - The problem being that lawyers will drag it out endlessly over where the line is drawn. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscarriage-of-justice-omnibus-thread/943643/353 "2024-08-11T22:33:03Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The problem being that lawyers will drag it out endlessly over where the line is drawn. Easily solvable - remove any way the state or government that employed them is on the hook for any of their legal bills. Let them go broke. Fuck 'em! ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscarriage-of-justice-omnibus-thread/943643/354 "2024-08-11T22:35:53Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The problem being that lawyers will drag it out endlessly over where the line is drawn. Let ‘em. Happens every day. Was something gross negligence or not? Let the courts decide, and let the first bazillion dollar judgment send a message. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscarriage-of-justice-omnibus-thread/943643/355 "2024-08-11T22:39:32Z")
The other half of it is that all that time and effort spent in convicting and imprisoning the wrong man means that the person who was really guilty of the murder got away with it. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscarriage-of-justice-omnibus-thread/943643/356 "2024-08-11T23:02:42Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > all that time and effort spent in convicting and imprisoning the wrong man means that the person who was really guilty of the murder got away with it This is the part I never understood from the law and order types. Their words talk about justice and such, but there actions say it is better to convict _someone_ than to convict the _right someone_. Hey, as long as someone is punished, then the scales are balanced, right? I do think culpability for misconduct is a very difficult issue. If the prosecution did everything right, but just didn’t prove to the jury guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, then that’s just the system working the way it should, and the accused shouldn’t have any recourse. The prosecution refusing to view a tape of the crime, because it might show someone else did it (or whatever happened in this case) is clear misconduct and should be dealt with harshly. At a minimum disbarment, and possibly jail time depending on where the slider is between incompetence and malfeasance. My only problem with letting courts work out exactly what happened in any instance, and give out appropriate consequences, is that it’s the courts which are the problem, and there are lots of incentives to be lenient on themselves. Who watches the watchers? ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscarriage-of-justice-omnibus-thread/943643/357 "2024-08-12T01:57:05Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > there actions say it is better to convict _someone_ than to convict the _right someone_. Hey, as long as someone is punished, then the scales are balanced, right? The “right” someone doesn’t necessarily mean the person who committed the crime, as long as they are the “right” color to be a convict. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The other half of it is that all that time and effort spent in convicting and imprisoning the wrong man means that the person who was really guilty of the murder got away with it. To me, and all things being equal, this is way less than half of it. It’s far worse to put an innocent person in jail (or, Og forbid, execute one) than to let a guilty person go free. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscarriage-of-justice-omnibus-thread/943643/358 "2024-08-12T02:02:38Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > The “right” someone doesn’t necessarily mean the person who committed the crime, as long as they are the “right” color to be a convict. And, ISTM, the right color for the voters to believe they committed a crime and thus the prosecution did their job. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2024, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscarriage-of-justice-omnibus-thread/943643/359 "2024-08-20T17:25:34Z")
> **[He Was Convicted of Killing His Baby. The DA’s Office Says He’s Innocent, but...](https://www.propublica.org/article/nashville-conviction-review-russell-maze-shaken-baby-syndrome)** > > When new scientific evidence casts doubt on convictions, the justice system has no easy path to freedom — even when it’s the prosecutors doing the asking. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2024, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscarriage-of-justice-omnibus-thread/943643/360 "2024-09-09T20:04:07Z")
> The wife of a retired Colorado police sergeant once hailed as a hero for his response to the 2012 Aurora movie theater was thrown in jail for refusing to bring her sons to ‘family reunification’ therapy after her [ex-husband was arrested and accused of sexually assaulting her daughters](https://www.themirror.com/news/us-news/hero-colorado-cop-accused-raping-683097). > > Retired sergeant Michael Hawkins, 55, is deeply embroiled in a custody dispute with his ex-wife, Rachel Pickrel-Hawkins, over his two young sons, aged 10 and 13. Hawkins stands accused of [raping his ex-wife](https://www.themirror.com/news/world-news/woman-raped-83-men-husbands-679223) Rachel Pickrel-Hawkins’ daughters and nearly drowning their eldest son in 2018. > > Citing these charges, Pickrel-Hawkins is currently serving seven weekends in jail for refusing to send the two young sons to court-ordered reunification therapy with Hawkins. [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/ex-wife-of-hero-colorado-cop-accused-of-raping-daughters-goes-to-jail-instead-in-shock-twist/ar-AA1qdh88?ocid=BingNewsVerp](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/ex-wife-of-hero-colorado-cop-accused-of-raping-daughters-goes-to-jail-instead-in-shock-twist/ar-AA1qdh88?ocid=BingNewsVerp) ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscarriage-of-justice-omnibus-thread/943643/361 "2024-09-20T02:54:25Z")
> Two days before [South Carolina](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/south-carolina) is scheduled to [execute a man on death row](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/sep/18/freddie-owens-south-carolina-execution), the key witness for the prosecution has come forward to say that he lied at trial and the state was putting to death an innocent man. > > Khalil Divine Black Sun Allah, 46, is due to be [killed by lethal injection](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/sep/06/south-carolina-death-penalty-freddie-owens-lawyer) on Friday. His attorneys filed emergency motions to halt the execution, citing new testimony asserting that Allah was wrongfully convicted, but the state supreme court denied the requests late Thursday, saying the execution should proceed. > **[‘He didn’t do it’: days before execution in South Carolina, key witness says...](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/sep/19/south-carolina-execution-freddie-owens)** > > Lawyers scramble to halt death of Khalil Divine Black Sun Allah, AKA Freddie Owens, after claim from co-defendant [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscarriage-of-justice-omnibus-thread/943643.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscarriage-of-justice-omnibus-thread/943643.md?page=19)