# Miscellaneous tough questions for Christians **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 24, 2015, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713 "2015-05-24T11:07:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/181 "2015-05-27T03:19:09Z")
Yes, that’s my point. God told them they’d die the day they ate from the tree, but he didn’t follow through with the threat. If you go on, they survived it and lived a long time afterwards. As for the second, that second part is the existing condition, “you return to the ground since from it you were taken, for dust you are and to dust you will return.” is the condition man finds himself in…he was made from dust and will become dust. The punishment is the first part…“By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food.” In other words, “You’ll have to work to get food until you die.” ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/182 "2015-05-27T03:35:08Z")
That’s not what it meant. God told them they will surely die. Being immortal as they were (they were created in God’s image) they would not suffer death, just as God will not suffer death. The death that God pronounced on them is one that came from their becoming mortal. That mortality lead to their eventual death. The assumption that death was instantaneous with eating is incorrect. God even explains it in the other verse quoted - “By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground,” (Gen 3:19). Here he states that the time of death is in the future - as indicated by the fact that Adam will have to toil for the food he eats from this point on. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/183 "2015-05-27T04:20:41Z")
Again, that’s an interpretation of the text. Why do you assume that interpretation is right and not “God was making a threat he didn’t intend to carry out” or “God decided to be merciful”? ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/184 "2015-05-27T05:28:27Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Do you have a reference for this? Genesis doesn’t say how long they bade in obedience. (Adam did have time to name all the animals and birds, which probably took more than a few days…). _They_ were only around after Adam had named the animals. In genesis 3 it goes straight to the snake story. I’m sure most Christians would get the impression that hardly any time had passed. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/185 "2015-05-27T05:32:17Z")
BTW they still hadn’t eaten from the tree of life and that implies they hadn’t had enough time to get bored ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/186 "2015-05-27T05:46:58Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > _They_ were only around after Adam had named the animals. In genesis 3 it goes straight to the snake story. I’m sure most Christians would get the impression that hardly any time had passed. Scriptural interpretation should not be based on “getting an impression.” I will ask a friend who is studying for the ministry; I’ll get back with an answer (if I receive one.) The actual text doesn’t give any clue to time (other than, as noted, less than 130 years.) ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/187 "2015-05-27T06:26:49Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Scriptural interpretation should not be based on “getting an impression.” I will ask a friend who is studying for the ministry; I’ll get back with an answer (if I receive one.) The actual text doesn’t give any clue to time (other than, as noted, less than 130 years.) When I’m asking the pastors the tough questions what matters is their interpretations, not the “correct” ones. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/188 "2015-05-27T12:01:00Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Scriptural interpretation should not be based on “getting an impression.” I will ask a friend who is studying for the ministry; I’ll get back with an answer (if I receive one.) The actual text doesn’t give any clue to time (other than, as noted, less than 130 years.) For which denomination is he studying? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/189 "2015-05-27T12:58:32Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > _They_ were only around after Adam had named the animals. In genesis 3 it goes straight to the snake story. I’m sure most Christians would get the impression that hardly any time had passed. So, now you’re speaking for “most” Christians? Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/190 "2015-05-27T16:00:29Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Again, that’s an interpretation of the text. Why do you assume that interpretation is right and not “God was making a threat he didn’t intend to carry out” Because God did carry out that threat. You keep confusing God’s statement that they will die incorrectly. Man brought sin intl the world, hence, man suffers physical death in fulfillment of God’s curse on Adam. > [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > or “God decided to be merciful”? Ironic, but in _The Legend of The Jews_, Satan realized that God might change his mind and forgive them their tresspasses. In fact, both Adam and Eve attempt to gain forgiveness by spending time standing in rivers, one in the Jordan, the other in the Tigris. While in the river Adam noticed the days growing shorter, and feared his sin had caused this and began an 8 day fast to avoid having the world cast into darkness. Not-canonical but interesting reading and it provides an insight into mans thinking at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/191 "2015-05-27T18:52:12Z")
In Genesis 1:26, the first creation story, who or what was God talking about when He said He made man in ‘our’ (other Gods?) image and later (Gen 3:22) complains that the creations want to be ‘like us’. Who is “us?” Was this first creation two people (it does say “them”) or was this person a hermaphrodite? In the second creation story, Gen 2:20, woman didn’t show up for a bit. So that is clearly a second being. Also, did God lie about the tree(s) and what would happen if the fruit were eaten, because he said the would ‘die’ which they didn’t and would not have if they ate from the other tree. Also, why would Abraham bed to save strangers in Sodom but so happily be willing to kill his own son so easily. I find his actions here inconsistent. Ans why was Lot turned to salt? For looking back? Looking at God (others had done so and not suffered the salt fate). What does looking or salt that have to do with anything? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/192 "2015-05-27T19:10:50Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > And why was Lot turned to salt? Lot’s wife. Not Lot himself. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/193 "2015-05-27T19:14:33Z")
Still, it was a Lot of salt. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/194 "2015-05-27T20:58:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I had a bet with myself that you were going to bring that up. Even most YEC types recognize what they call “micro-evolution”, so that doesn’t get you anywhere. Evolutionary theory is the basis of modern biology, but you don’t really need it to address “public health” issues. Well you can try the methodological angle for those who insist upon a non-spiritual interpretation of the Holy Bible. The germ theory of disease wasn’t arrived at through superficial extrapolation of scripture. No, scientists applied careful observation of the world and hard work, as the Lord intended. The antithesis of pride and sloth. As for micro-evolution, it occurs at far higher rates than observed in nature. To defend their prideful nonspiritual interpretation of the story of the Ark of Noah, fundamentalist theoreticians posit some 2000 to 50,000 species on board. The remaining millions of species come about via micro-evolution over 6000 years according to this non-spiritual interpretation. I say the good Lord created 6,000,000 species of beatles for a reason. It was to remind us of the virtue of humility and to underline the majesty of natural selection. Some may argue that they were all created by Satan: that’s heresy. I understand that there are a mere 30 species of cockroach associated with human habitat. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/195 "2015-05-27T21:05:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > For which denomination is he studying? I don’t actually know. She’s a nice lady, so it has to be a denom liberal enough to allow women ministers. Otherwise, all I know is that she follows a mix of literal and figurative interpretation. She accepts evolution…but she also has been taught that there are no contradictions in the Bible. Interesting pair of viewpoints. She flirts a little with universalism, because the whole “punished forever in hell” thing doesn’t feel right to her. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/196 "2015-05-27T21:32:24Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > So, now you’re speaking for “most” Christians? Interesting. Well most people I know are one, I go to church quite a bit and I used to be a Christian. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/197 "2015-05-27T21:36:26Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > In Genesis 1:26, the first creation story, who or what was God talking about when He said He made man in ‘our’ (other Gods?) image and later (Gen 3:22) complains that the creations want to be ‘like us’. Who is “us?” > > Was this first creation two people (it does say “them”) or was this person a hermaphrodite?.. Actually that shows that the idea of the trinity has some support in the Old Testament. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/198 "2015-05-28T15:18:07Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Well you can try the methodological angle for those who insist upon a non-spiritual interpretation of the Holy Bible. The germ theory of disease wasn’t arrived at through superficial extrapolation of scripture. No, scientists applied careful observation of the world and hard work, as the Lord intended. The antithesis of pride and sloth. > > As for micro-evolution, it occurs at far higher rates than observed in nature. To defend their prideful nonspiritual interpretation of the story of the Ark of Noah, fundamentalist theoreticians posit some 2000 to 50,000 species on board. The remaining millions of species come about via micro-evolution over 6000 years according to this non-spiritual interpretation. > > I say the good Lord created 6,000,000 species of beatles for a reason. It was to remind us of the virtue of humility and to underline the majesty of natural selection. Some may argue that they were all created by Satan: that’s heresy. I understand that there are a mere 30 species of cockroach associated with human habitat. In Truth No one knows anything about any God, they are taking the word of some other human. All comes from another human if it be written , told or thought. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/199 "2015-05-28T16:43:38Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I say the good Lord created 6,000,000 species of beatles for a reason. Can God create a Beatle bigger than Himself? ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/200 "2015-05-28T17:26:54Z")
Why ask Christians to explain something they didn’t write? If you have problems with Hebrew Scriptures go ask a Rabbi. And then ask another for a different answer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713.md?page=11)