# Miscellaneous tough questions for Christians **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 24, 2015, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713 "2015-05-24T11:07:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/81 "2015-05-25T07:20:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If you’re really an agnostic, I can’t imagine what you get out of attending such a church. I spend a lot of time having discussions with the two pastors and some of the others about theology and life in general. I used to believe in a young-earth and I don’t think the pastors are convinced of the earth being young. The Bible is such an interesting thing to discuss… there are many parts that have opposing views. My sisters believe in things like the prosperity gospel, miraculous healings (Benny Hinn), speaking in tongues, being slain in the spirit, etc. There’s so many controversial things. Just last night I was talking about the history of circumcision in the Bible, etc. (first there’s none, then it is for every male in God’s people, then it says you don’t need to do it, etc) > [@](#): > > Have you considered switching to one that embraces modern science more readily? I like discussing things with people where I think they’ve got the weak end of the debate. Well I do if it is a spoken debate. The debates I sometimes have here get too long-winded. > [@](#): > > Or are you there to try and unconvert them? If the latter, good luck!! Yes I’m trying to deconvert them as well. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/82 "2015-05-25T07:26:12Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > You’re assuming that all Christians accept the Bible as the literal truth. This thread is about question and answer sessions at a particular church. What matters is what their pastors believe and based on that I’ll try and make them look bad. > [@](#): > > …I see that as nothing more than oral traditions passed through generations, embellished at each step, before finally put to paper. So is the Virgin birth, Jesus’s death and resurrection, etc, also an embellishment? If so, what kind of Christian are you? > [@](#): > > Seriously, CNN can’t get contemporary stories correct today, how do you expect people who lived 5000 years ago to have done any better when their sources were often generations removed? BTW do you think Genesis 5 was handed down accurately? > **[Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 5 - New International Version](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2B5)** > > From Adam to Noah - This is the written account of Adam’s family line. When God created mankind, he made them in the likeness of God. He created them male and female and blessed them. And he named them “Mankind” when they were created. When Adam had... Wouldn’t someone have noticed if many of the names and numbers had changed? ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/83 "2015-05-25T07:33:04Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > They disagreed with the plan of salvation. They were against the free will part of it. So you believe in Satan? > **[404](https://cbn.com/lp/404)** > > The Christian Broadcasting Network is a global ministry committed to preparing the nations of the world for the coming of Jesus Christ through mass media and humanitarian outreach. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/84 "2015-05-25T07:34:27Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Torture is the absence from the father for eternity. It’s not a physical pain in a burning fire as some have portrayed. How can you be so sure of that? Is it based on overwhelming Bible verses or are you just picking and choosing based on what feels right. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/85 "2015-05-25T07:36:56Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Two questions that beg to be asked: > > 1. Where did Cain’s wife come from? I think there are good answers to that: [http://www.gotquestions.org/Cains-wife.html](http://www.gotquestions.org/Cains-wife.html) ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/86 "2015-05-25T07:39:34Z")
> [@razncain](#): > > Mind if I ask what denomination allows that? Is it UU? It’s a “Community Church of Christ”. > [@](#): > > Hope you can get this one question answered for me. Does God control the weather or not? If yes, does he not understand the concept of moderation? They might say that it is a cursed world but maybe God intervenes sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/87 "2015-05-25T07:45:11Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > …The Bible is not intended to be a science book; nevertheless, there is a fair bit of science in it. > Geology–“Surely there is a vein for the silver, and a place for gold where they fine it. Iron is taken out of the earth, and brass is molten out of the stone. . . . As for the earth, out of it cometh bread: and under it is turned up as it were fire.” (Job 28) > Meteorology–“To make the weight for the winds; and he weigheth the waters by measure.” (Job 28:25) > Gravity–“He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.” (Job 26:7)… Isaiah 40:22 “It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.” This suggests that the earth is flat… if it was a sphere it would be hard to pitch up a tent around it or see everyone at once (many would be hidden on the other side) ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/88 "2015-05-25T07:52:13Z")
In past Q&A sessions I asked things like: > **[Psalm 104:5 - How Many Are Your Works, O LORD!](https://biblehub.com/psalms/104-5.htm)** > > He set the earth on its foundations, never to be moved. “He set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be moved.” The earth actually spins on its axis, orbits the Sun and moves around the galaxy at huge speeds so it actually is moving! (I can’t remember their response) Whether the ages in Genesis (900+ years) were literal (they said yes) And in the example of a really bad dog, it would just be put down yet in a similar position God might torture it for ever and ever and ever. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/89 "2015-05-25T09:17:59Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Why didn’t God care about Native Americans for 2000 years? He apparently did care about the Native Americans. Look up ‘Mormon’ with regard to Nephites and Lamanites. Ask why the Mormons are wrong and then ask if they are wrong why are Christians anymore right as they have about as much evidence to support their views. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/90 "2015-05-25T13:08:47Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > So you believe in Satan? > [http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/shows/cwn/2009/April/Most-Christians-Dont-Believe-Satan-Is-Real-/](http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/shows/cwn/2009/April/Most-Christians-Dont-Believe-Satan-Is-Real-/) I’m merely explaining the Plan of Salvation to you, and the traditional actors therein. I can also explain what zombies are. Explaining doesn’t necessarily mean believing. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/91 "2015-05-25T13:12:51Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > This thread is about question and answer sessions at a particular church. What matters is what their pastors believe and based on that I’ll try and make them look bad. Had you followed my posts, you’d have seen that they were an answer to a specific posters question. > [@JohnClay](#): > > So is the Virgin birth, Jesus’s death and resurrection, etc, also an embellishment? If so, what kind of Christian are you? Yes, they were handed down via the Oral Traditions. > [@JohnClay](#): > > BTW do you think Genesis 5 was handed down accurately? What I believe or do not believe is irrelevant. Please cease with your attempts to make this personal. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/92 "2015-05-25T13:43:46Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > So is the Virgin birth, Jesus’s death and resurrection, etc, also an embellishment? If so, what kind of Christian are you? > [@Morgenstern](#): > > Yes, they were handed down via the Oral Traditions. For Christians, even for most liberals, would you say that is definitely a minority view that Jesus’ death and resurrection was just an embellishment? For Paul, and many others, they are all in with the, if the resurrection didn’t happen, their faith is in vain. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/93 "2015-05-25T13:48:33Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Many Christians do not accept Genesis as factual. While many still do. As Christians, is there anything biblical that they can agree on as fact, or have they yet to discover their first one? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/94 "2015-05-25T14:06:23Z")
> [@razncain](#): > > While many still do. As Christians, is there anything biblical that they can agree on as fact, or have they yet to discover their first one? There is this. No matter what question is put forth, someone usually comes up and says, “That question is invalid because Christians really don’t believe that”, and by “Christians” it is meant “The church I follow” or “The Christians I get along with.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/95 "2015-05-25T14:47:19Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Understanding of [antibiotic resistance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimicrobial_resistance) is grounded on evolutionary theory. The germ theory of disease is the major conceptual underpinning of public health. The two are related. I had a bet with myself that you were going to bring that up. Even most YEC types recognize what they call “micro-evolution”, so that doesn’t get you anywhere. Evolutionary theory is the basis of modern biology, but you don’t really need it to address “public health” issues. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/96 "2015-05-25T16:14:50Z")
The main issue the YECs have with evolution is that it denigrates humans to the status of other animals. After all, did god not create humans as special beings, in his own image? How could we be related to apes and nematodes and archaea when he made that extra effort to make us a specialty item? Somewhere, I saw a graphic that I cannot seem to locate now that shows numerous roots of evolutionary ladders leading to the diversity of current species. The roots are founded in the ark of noah, whence those creatures came. Hence, YECs can allow for evolution where they need to yet still keep mankind out of the realm of baser animals. The idea that we are descended from stromatolites or parameciums or whatever is just unthinkable. We cannot even be related to those things, because we were made apart from them. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/97 "2015-05-25T16:18:17Z")
> [@razncain](#): > > For Christians, even for most liberals, would you say that is definitely a minority view that Jesus’ death and resurrection was just an embellishment? For Paul, and many others, they are all in with the, if the resurrection didn’t happen, their faith is in vain. I guess my point wasn’t clearly made. I was referring to the events being handed down through Oral Tradition. I.E., not written by those who directly observed the events. Interestingly enough, even the banned gospels are consistent with resurrection and divinity of Christ. But yes, you are correct. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/98 "2015-05-25T16:20:40Z")
> [@razncain](#): > > While many still do. As Christians, is there anything biblical that they can agree on as fact, or have they yet to discover their first one? I think there’s little disagreement with respect to the monotheistic deity. I’m still thinking about something else though. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/99 "2015-05-25T16:28:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > There is this. No matter what question is put forth, someone usually comes up and says, “That question is invalid because Christians really don’t believe that”, and by “Christians” it is meant “The church I follow” or “The Christians I get along with.” I think we did a thread not too long ago where we tried to list those things all (or virtually all) Christians would agree to. Anyone remember it? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/100 "2015-05-25T16:34:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think we did a thread not too long ago where we tried to list those things all (or virtually all) Christians would agree to. Anyone remember it? I think I remember a lot of tearing of hair and gnashing of teeth-was that the one? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713.md?page=6)