# Miscellaneous tough questions for Christians **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 24, 2015, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713 "2015-05-24T11:07:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/141 "2015-05-26T04:26:07Z")
At this point, the hardest question for Christians might be “have you actually read and tried to understand this bible of yours?” ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/142 "2015-05-26T06:06:24Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If the NA were Christians when the Europeans arrived, they wouldn’t have gotten European diseases? How could the Native Americans have been Christian, before the Europeans arrived, if God never revealed himself to them? I imagine that this is the question which was on the minds of European immigrants, until the new order became natural, that lead to the creation of the LDS church. It helped to explain this rather vast oversight on God’s part. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/143 "2015-05-26T08:29:41Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Does a Paleontologist have to be a dinosaur to have a relevant “assertion” with respect to dinosaurs? That seems to be the sum of your logic. So I guess you aren’t a Christian. It’s good that you are now using words like “seems”. “Even those who refuse to believe are not damned. They get an eternal life absent pain and suffering. They may not get ice cream on Sundays, but they are neither punished or tortured in any sense of the word.” For basically all of the Christians I know, the afterlife for the unsaved involves an eternity of extreme physical pain. Though some Christians believe what you’re talking about. You seem to be insisting that your view, which you don’t even believe in, is the correct one. Your post #117 comes up with a problem that I doubt any Christian would have any problem with. (“There was no way they couldn’t fail in keeping one of the commandments.”) Like has been said, not eating of the tree of knowledge (of good and evil) doesn’t stop them from breeding. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/144 "2015-05-26T08:31:08Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > At this point, the hardest question for Christians might be “have you actually read and tried to understand this bible of yours?” I think that would be a very easy question for the two pastors. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/145 "2015-05-26T08:35:30Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > Exactly like; it’s an oral genealogy for a pre-literate culture. There are plenty of contemporary examples: when Maori formally meet in a traditional setting, they will spend a _long_ time establishing _whakapapa_, or an oral history of who begat whom and where and when. > **[Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 5 - New International Version](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2B5)** > > From Adam to Noah - This is the written account of Adam’s family line. When God created mankind, he made them in the likeness of God. He created them male and female and blessed them. And he named them “Mankind” when they were created. When Adam had... Do you seriously think the numbers involved were done in a purely oral way? They even made sure that everyone not on the ark was dead when it was time for the Flood. I’d have a lot of trouble doing it without writing things down. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/146 "2015-05-26T08:39:21Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > The problem is this. In the garden, Adam and Eve were immortal… Like I’ve said before how do you _know_ which parts were part of the original story and which parts are embellishments? > [@](#): > > …You can read in Genesis about the Lord telling Eve, as partial punishment, that she shall suffer the pain of childbirth - Eve now becomes the mother of the living as she now can produce children. I think it means that from that point on childbirth would be very painful - compared to other animals. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/147 "2015-05-26T08:43:15Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > How does that follow? There are lots of people who are very well educated regarding religions they don’t actually believe or practice. > > Are Christians, likewise, forbidden from commenting upon Islam or Buddhism? Morgenstern seems to insist that his interpretation is the correct one rather than talking about how things seem based on their reasoning. Then he comes up with things that don’t have much Biblical support e.g. that they’d only know how to breed if they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/148 "2015-05-26T10:09:04Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > [Genesis 5 - From Adam to Noah - This is the written - Bible Gateway](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+5) > Do you seriously think the numbers involved were done in a purely oral way? They even made sure that everyone not on the ark was dead when it was time for the Flood. I’d have a lot of trouble doing it without writing things down. No doubt you would, but be that as it may, those from an oral tradition are capable of far more, and there’s nothing there beyond a few days cramming and some mnemonics. Have you never memorised tables or equations, or for that matter names and dates for an exam? ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/149 "2015-05-26T10:38:48Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > No doubt you would, but be that as it may, those from an oral tradition are capable of far more, and there’s nothing there beyond a few days cramming and some mnemonics. Have you never memorised tables or equations, or for that matter names and dates for an exam? There are about 30 2-3 digit numbers there that need to be in the right order. I’ve used mnemonics but they involved literacy. With writing these numbers are 2-3 digits but without writing I think many more things would be needed - even more than in the Roman number system. Like I said about the ages near the Flood, they knew about multi-digit addition and I think that requires writing. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/150 "2015-05-26T13:38:33Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > The book of Genesis never says that Adam and Eve were immortal in the garden of Eden, and it never says they became mortal as a result of their eating the fruit. God tells them that if they eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge, they’ll die from it… And thus, death was introduced into an otherwise “immortal” world. Romans 5:12 Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned… A world without death is an immortal world. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/151 "2015-05-26T14:04:21Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > So I guess you aren’t a Christian. It’s good that you are now using words like “seems”. > > “Even those who refuse to believe are not damned. They get an eternal life absent pain and suffering. They may not get ice cream on Sundays, but they are neither punished or tortured in any sense of the word.” > > For basically all of the Christians I know, the afterlife for the unsaved involves an eternity of extreme physical pain. Though some Christians believe what you’re talking about. You seem to be insisting that your view, which you don’t even believe in, is the correct one. > > Your post #117 comes up with a problem that I doubt any Christian would have any problem with. (“There was no way they couldn’t fail in keeping one of the commandments.”) Like has been said, not eating of the tree of knowledge (of good and evil) doesn’t stop them from breeding. That’s why they had so many children in the garden, right… After all, they were commanded to, so they surely must have done it. Wonder why Genesis is silent about all those born, in the Garden, to Adam and Eve? Your questions are so far from genuine that I am losing any desire to respond to you. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/152 "2015-05-26T14:21:48Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > That’s why they had so many children in the garden, right… After all, they were commanded to, so they surely must have done it. Wonder why Genesis is silent about all those born, in the Garden, to Adam and Eve? > > Your questions are so far from genuine that I am losing any desire to respond to you. Could it possibly be that the Bible contradicts itself? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/153 "2015-05-26T15:05:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Could it possibly be that the Bible contradicts itself? There’s no doubt that that occurs. Additionally, there are translation errors and different versions of the Bible. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/154 "2015-05-26T15:12:05Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > There’s no doubt that that occurs. Additionally, there are translation errors and different versions of the Bible. _sigh_ Jell-O wall nailing time again, I see. I am talking about _this particular argument_. In this particular situation could the Bible be contradicting itself? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/155 "2015-05-26T15:27:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > _sigh_ Jell-O wall nailing time again, I see. > I am talking about _this particular argument_. In this particular situation could the Bible be contradicting itself? Oh, I see, now that you’ve clearly stated your question, you want me to find contradictions in this particular issue? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/156 "2015-05-26T15:33:38Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Oh, I see, now that you’ve clearly stated your question, you want me to find contradictions in this particular issue? :smack::smack::smack::smack: _Is it possible that neither one of you are completely right or wrong on this particular matter because the Bible is contradicting itself?_ ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/157 "2015-05-26T15:52:16Z")
Neither one of who? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/158 "2015-05-26T18:22:25Z")
What is the answer to: 14 k of g in a f p d? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/159 "2015-05-26T19:41:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > :smack::smack::smack::smack: > _Is it possible that neither one of you are completely right or wrong on this particular matter because the Bible is contradicting itself?_ More prayer, my son. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713/160 "2015-05-26T20:36:34Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > Morgenstern seems to insist that his interpretation is the correct one rather than talking about how things seem based on their reasoning. Then he comes up with things that don’t have much Biblical support e.g. that they’d only know how to breed if they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Then challenge him on his specific errors. Don’t dismiss all non-Christians and their opinions. That’s blanket prejudice and unreasonable. You could conceivably show that non-Christians are incorrect in Bible interpretation slightly more often than Christians (although the actual evidence shows exactly the opposite effect.) But you certainly can’t show that non-Christians’ assertions regarding Bible interpretation are irrelevant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscellaneous-tough-questions-for-christians/720713.md?page=9)