# misogynism in anime **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 25, 2010, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379 "2010-08-25T07:35:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379/21 "2010-08-25T14:49:35Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > It’s one big package, really. I mostly couldn’t think of any examples of “actual” misogyny off the top of my head, but the point still stands. > > You haven’t seen enough anime. I’m not a big anime fan, but I’ve seen plenty of stuff that I find truly revoltingly misogynistic. There’s a world of difference between things that are virtually rape fantasies and the T&A you decry. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379/22 "2010-08-25T14:54:45Z")
Another major factor in anime is that not all anime is produced with a male audience in mind. **Tenchi Muyo!** is a shōnen anime, i.e., it’s primary audience is male teenagers (though older males and many females would enjoy it too). Another category of anime is shōjo, aimed at female teenagers. Let’s look at a couple of examples of shōjo anime. [Sailor Moon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailor_Moon) is magical girl anime aimed primarily at preteen and younger teenage girls. Its protagonist, Usagi Tsukino, is a very ordinary girl aged about 13 who transforms into Sailor Moon to defeat various monsters. I find it hard to think of **Sailor Moon** as misogynist when it satisfies the same kind of fantasies in young women as Peter Parker transforming into Spider Man does for young men. [Kare Kano](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kare_Kano) is aimed at a slightly older female audience, since its protagonists (Yukino Miyazawa and Soichiro Arima) are high-school students aged about 16. They start off both projecting a persona of perfection to the world, and both competing for the top place in class, until each discovers the more human side behind the public image. There’s no fan service, just the story of one personality interacting with another as their love develops. And how many American stories have the girl wanting to beat her boyfriend in top marks in the class? Not much misogyny there. And for older females again one genre is [Yaoi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaoi) – stories about gay male relationships aimed at a female audience. That might have T&A, but it’s on male bodies, so the tits are just normal (but very healthy) young men’s chests. Is it misogyny when the tables are turned, and women are enjoying the sight of young men naked and getting it on together? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379/23 "2010-08-25T15:01:42Z")
Wait, what’s remarkable about anime in this regard? Last time I checked, Hollywood was rife with T&A and objectification of women, too. ---
**Author:** ![Lucky\_13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucky_13/32/13209_2.png) [@Lucky\_13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucky_13)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379/24 "2010-08-25T15:40:45Z")
It depends on what kind of anime you’re watching. Anime based on the works of Kazuo Koike, for example, has some pretty misogynistic elements - somebody’s always getting raped or something. This doesn’t mean all anime is like that. I find it interesting that seinen anime (the type aimed at adult men), which has some of the most virulent displays of misogyny, also has some of the most capable, competent heroines, regardless of how much cleavage they show - for example, Revy from “Black Lagoon.” As for fanservice, yes, there’s plenty, but I’ve noticed that manga and anime producers have taken notice of the growing number of female fans, and have increased the instances of shirtless guys and male heroes and/or villains in the shower accordingly\*. Everyone gets equally exploited. 😃 I just wish that all anime fans would not get all lumped together as one monolithic, cat-ear-wearing, animu-worshiping weeaboo fest. :mad: \*Not together, though. That’s another genre. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379/25 "2010-08-25T15:44:25Z")
> [@cactus\_waltz](#): > > I suppose this might be “opening a can of worms” as you Americans might say. Any anime featuring an actual can of worms is almost certainly going to be fairly misogynist. ---
**Author:** ![ministryman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@ministryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ministryman)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379/26 "2010-08-25T16:02:53Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@Superhal](#): > > > > The US is the exception, not the rule. > > I beg to differ - or are you not the country of _Girls Gone Wild_ and _The Surrendered Wife_? Well played sir, well played. We are also the land of Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler, and a slew of other magazines that objectify women. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379/27 "2010-08-25T17:13:59Z")
> [@ministryman](#): > > We are also the land of Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler, and a slew of other magazines that objectify women. I’ve never really bought that argument. They don’t “objectify” women; they are objects. You can’t hold a conversation with them or make friends with them; they are dead photographs. Which is why men treat them as sex objects; that is precisely what they are. The fact that a man looks at an image as nothing more than a vehicle for his own gratification tells you nothing one way or the other about how he treats actual women. ---
**Author:** ![cactus\_waltz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@cactus\_waltz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cactus_waltz)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379/28 "2010-08-25T21:48:09Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > You haven’t seen enough anime. I’m not a big anime fan, but I’ve seen plenty of stuff that I find truly revoltingly misogynistic. There’s a world of difference between things that are virtually rape fantasies and the T&A you decry. Well, okay. Your argument is that anime is actually more misogynistic than my OP insinuates. I don’t distrust that, but it doesn’t really change the main question: does anime get away with mysogynism for being foreign? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379/29 "2010-08-25T22:05:08Z")
> [@cactus\_waltz](#): > > > [@CalMeacham](#): > > > > You haven’t seen enough anime. I’m not a big anime fan, but I’ve seen plenty of stuff that I find truly revoltingly misogynistic. There’s a world of difference between things that are virtually rape fantasies and the T&A you decry. > > Well, okay. Your argument is that anime is actually more misogynistic than my OP insinuates. I don’t distrust that, but it doesn’t really change the main question: does anime get away with mysogynism for being foreign? Perhaps there is a touch of that. ‘Oh those Japanese, they’re so oppressed in regular life they just go crazy with the schoolgirl-raping tentacles, but who am I to judge?’ But there’s a pretty broad range out there, from characters who are more realistic than most female Marvel superheroes to ones with H breasts perpetually tied to a table. It’s quite a large category to lump all together. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379/30 "2010-08-25T22:08:21Z")
If the anime people are watching is simply the T&A kind rather than the actually misogynistic kind, then no one is getting away with anything. Some books have misogynistic content. Does that mean that the entire category of books “gets away” with being misogynistic? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379/31 "2010-08-25T22:25:13Z")
Please. It’s “misogyny”. Not “misogynism”. “Misogynism” makes me want to tentacle-rape something. ---
**Author:** ![BadgerHunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@BadgerHunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BadgerHunter)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379/32 "2010-08-25T22:52:38Z")
Interesting thread. There are quite a few anime with heavy doses of “fanservice”, female casts who all want to get into the protagonist’s pants, and generally poor role models. On the other hand I’ve seen more strong female leads, non-oversexed, non-objectified, female characters in anime than in just about any other medium. Cowboy Bebop is an interesting one to pick as an example of T&A/misogyny. Faye Valentine uses her looks to hustle men. I guess this is the thing about fanservice: its there purely to titillate the audience. The character Faye is dressed provocatively because she is a femme fatale; the clothing design and camera angles are key in getting this across to the viewer. Faye’s story is one of the more touching of the series precisely _because_ of this. A question for the OP: What do you think of anime like Ghost In The Shell (referring to the anime series, not the movie or manga) where the lead is a strong female character, there is absolutely no sex or romance, misogynistic tones or story, but there is a large degree of nudity, large breasts, or revealing clothing? Also worth noting that it is pretty explicitly stated in GITS that the lead character chose a female-gender body over a stronger male-gender body. IE, is attractive female character design alone an example of misogyny or objectification? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379/33 "2010-08-25T23:20:09Z")
> [@BadgerHunter](#): > > A question for the OP: What do you think of anime like Ghost In The Shell (referring to the anime series, not the movie or manga) where the lead is a strong female character, there is absolutely no sex or romance, misogynistic tones or story, but there is a large degree of nudity, large breasts, or revealing clothing? Also worth noting that it is pretty explicitly stated in GITS that the lead character chose a female-gender body over a stronger male-gender body. IE, is attractive female character design alone an example of misogyny or objectification? One thing that’s occurred to me that while of course the RL motive is fanservice, if a woman had a militarized cybernetic body that was that much tougher than human, she might very well run around wearing a lot less than you’d expect in the real world. After all, she probably doesn’t feel discomfort from ordinary extremes of heat and cold, or from clothing being too tight. And she’s tougher than the majority of males who might harass her. And when I hear women talk about not wanting to wear sexy/revealing clothes all the time, comfort is the top reason I hear them give. And of course someone with a perfect if artificial body isn’t going to have the kinds of imperfections that clothes are good at hiding, either. So if a woman isn’t going to feel uncomfortable, can throw harassers though the nearest wall, and has a perfect body why not dress sexy? As for choosing a female body; a female is still going to want a female body regardless of the strength advantages of a male one. Nor does it matter that much since they typically use guns, and a cyborged female while not as strong as a male, is going to be strong enough to carry very powerful guns. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379/34 "2010-08-25T23:21:37Z")
> [@cactus\_waltz](#): > > I guess what I’m after is: does anime get away with stuff in popular culture that wouldn’t be okay in US or Europe simple because of being Japanese? If so, is that really legitimate? Speaking as an anime fan, I actually DO think it’s a bit misogynistic. I also think that it’s because of attitudes in Japan, and yes, it wouldn’t be ok here. It’s not a legitimate concern though, because I don’t believe it’s all that severe. Part of the reason why I think Americans have a big problem with it is because we’re a lot more prudish here about sex. Over there, they can have kids flashing their dicks or panties and it’s not a big deal. Here, the creators would get death threats and chants of pedophile outside their studio. Look at the original Japanese Dragonball, Goku flashes his dick all the time because he’s naked a lot This stuff isn’t seen in the same light as it is here. There was a stupid controversy over an Italian film with Monica Bellucci being raped, even though the actor doing it was her real life husband. CNN or some other big news network ran stories on Rapelay, a game where the male protagonist rapes 3 women. That’s nothing, I remember watching La Blue Girl like 15 years ago. It’s just not as big of a deal there ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379/35 "2010-08-25T23:33:32Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > There was a stupid controversy over an Italian film with Monica Bellucci being raped, even though the actor doing it was her real life husband. Was there? I mean, I know _Irréversible_ (I assume this is the movie you meant, though Vincent Cassel plays her lover, not the rapist) was/is ‘controversial’ in the general sense, but was there a huge shit storm when it hit America, specifically, that I don’t remember? (I mean, one that was bigger than, I don’t know, when fundies try to get Harry Potter banned?) > [@YogSosoth](#): > > CNN or some other big news network ran stories on Rapelay, a game where the male protagonist rapes 3 women. To be fair, the game features a whole lot of raping (not just three rapes – and not just adult women). ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379/36 "2010-08-26T02:21:21Z")
Well, the Japanese have a whole subgenre of pornographic anime - Hentai. I’m surprised no one’s mentioned that this far into the thread. I remember watching “Ninja Scroll” in high school, watching this giant ogre sucking an unconscious woman’s breasts in his mouth one by one like grapes. In Japanese pornos they have you see some really rough sex, but yet they still censor out genitalia. ---
**Author:** ![GythaOgg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/49beb7/32.png) [@GythaOgg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GythaOgg)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379/37 "2010-08-26T02:39:00Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > > [@cactus\_waltz](#): > > > > I’m aware of that. I just don’t think the “they think differently in Japan” answer is satisfying, since what we get is the end product which we consume on our own terms. What if, for instance, anime had a lot of homophobic or racial slurs. We might still explain that by saying that Japanese have a different take on homosexuality and ethnic diversity, but it feels like a cop-out in a way. > > I understand your point but you are falling into a trap of ethnocentrism. > > The only motivations which truly matter are those of the writer/ directors. Do the character’s motivations mean nothing? Let’s take an example. In _Tenchi Myuo_, a harem comedy/space opera, We get to see a lot of all the female characters. Now the nudity is viewed differently by the character’s themselves. Ryoko shamelessly flaunts herself to tease the male lead, and annoy her female counterparts. Ayeka on the other hand is fairly prudish, freaking out when she’s caught in a state undress. Sasami is too young to be traditionally viewed as a sexual object so generally she is always covered in a towel. Mihoshi who is arguably the “stacked” character of the group is seemingly unaware of the effect her body has on the males, and is equally oblivious of the annoyance of all the other females. > > The net result is a rather full spectrum of female sexuality and some seriously funny comedy. The characters have plenty of depth, competence and emotional involvements. Part of the fun of being adult is enjoying sexual interactions and comedy, anime caters to that. Is the fan service unnecessary? Sure. Would it be as fun without it? Not really. Think of it like a show on HBO like _True Blood_ where nudity is used to the same effect. It’s also worth nothing that in combination with all of the above, Tenchi presents a strong message of empowered women - one of the things I love about it. In the Tenchi universe, the most powerful people on the political and social scene, the people who really run things and do the work, are all female and the men tend to be passive. This includes Emperor Azusa (while he’s powerful, his wives and mother-in-law are the ones in control, with his consent), Prince Yosho (sits around on Earth doing not much while his wife Airi runs the Galaxy Academy, and the Galaxy Police (run by Mihoshi’s great-Aunt Mikami, who kicked her brother out of the job when he failed miserably at it.) Tenchi Muyo presents a universe where the women are the only folks competent enough to be running things and it’s a pattern all through the series, right behind the ostensible fanservice. I know way too much about that show. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379/38 "2010-08-26T07:13:01Z")
> [@antonio107](#): > > Well, the Japanese have a whole subgenre of pornographic anime - Hentai. I’m surprised no one’s mentioned that this far into the thread. They have, they just haven’t distinguished it from anime in general (notice the above references to tentacle rape, La Blue Girl, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379/39 "2010-08-26T07:16:05Z")
> [@GythaOgg](#): > > It’s also worth nothing that in combination with all of the above, Tenchi presents a strong message of empowered women - one of the things I love about it. In the Tenchi universe, the most powerful people on the political and social scene, the people who really run things and do the work, are all female and the men tend to be passive. This includes Emperor Azusa (while he’s powerful, his wives and mother-in-law are the ones in control, with his consent), Prince Yosho (sits around on Earth doing not much while his wife Airi runs the Galaxy Academy, and the Galaxy Police (run by Mihoshi’s great-Aunt Mikami, who kicked her brother out of the job when he failed miserably at it.) Tenchi Muyo presents a universe where the women are the only folks competent enough to be running things and it’s a pattern all through the series, right behind the ostensible fanservice. Well, I guess we should be complaining about misandry in anime, eh? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379/40 "2010-08-26T07:27:01Z")
> [@antonio107](#): > > I remember watching “Ninja Scroll” in high school, watching this giant ogre sucking an unconscious woman’s breasts in his mouth one by one like grapes. In Japanese pornos they have you see some really rough sex, but yet they still censor out genitalia. Well, of course. They have _standards._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379.md?page=3)