# misogynism in anime **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 25, 2010, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379 "2010-08-25T07:35:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![cactus\_waltz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@cactus\_waltz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cactus_waltz)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379/41 "2010-08-26T08:41:14Z")
> [@BadgerHunter](#): > > A question for the OP: What do you think of anime like Ghost In The Shell (referring to the anime series, not the movie or manga) where the lead is a strong female character, there is absolutely no sex or romance, misogynistic tones or story, but there is a large degree of nudity, large breasts, or revealing clothing? Also worth noting that it is pretty explicitly stated in GITS that the lead character chose a female-gender body over a stronger male-gender body. IE, is attractive female character design alone an example of misogyny or objectification? Without having seen it, I would assume it has to do with how good the writing is. It might seem natural in its context, but if it’s not handled well it might just as well come across as fan-service albeit one with better backstory. For example, in the Sopranos the viewer is exposed to naked strippers pretty much every time the story takes place at the Bada Bing. In some other series or movie it might have across as wanting to show naked strippers just for the sake of it. Maybe there is some of that in the Sopranos too. However, not only does it make up for a big part of Tony Soprano’s character, but there’s an episode that shows the tough and abusive lifestyle of the strippers themselves, which puts it into another light entirely. In the end, it doesn’t come across as forced. As for your question: is attractive female character design alone an example of misogyny or objectification? I say no, depending on how you define attractive. But couple the attractive design with genuine good characteristics and story (i.e. not constantly put down or outdone by male peers, not having her clothes torn apart for no apparent reason, etc) and it should be perfectly fine. The character Joan in Mad Men, for example, definitely has a sex appeal and knows to use it, but she also has intelligence and integrity. My girlfriend thinks she is a super woman. ---
**Author:** ![Mekhazzio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b38774/32.png) [@Mekhazzio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mekhazzio)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379/42 "2010-08-26T11:00:40Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > One thing that’s occurred to me that while of course the RL motive is fanservice, if a woman had a militarized cybernetic body that was that much tougher than human, she might very well run around wearing a lot less than you’d expect in the real world. … > As for choosing a female body; a female is still going to want a female body regardless of the strength advantages of a male one. Nor does it matter that much since they typically use guns, and a cyborged female while not as strong as a male, is going to be strong enough to carry very powerful guns. GITS is interesting in this regard. In the first movie, the main character disrobes upon entering a combat situation and wears nothing during, as the “skin” of her cybernetic body is a high-tech stealth suit. Shameless fanservice for brief moments before she spends the entire following segment as nothing more than a faint outline. As for choosing the female body because of being originally female…the story (at least as far as I’ve seen of it) is ambiguous about that. It’s suggested more than a few times that the choice was because of it offering the ability to exploit chauvinistic males in undercover operations. That’s the only time she behaves in a sexual manner at all, and is otherwise stern, cold and aloof. Despite spending a large portion of the movie completely nude, she’s even less of a sex object than, say, Sigourney Weaver in the later Aliens movies. > [@BadgerHunter](#): > > Cowboy Bebop is an interesting one to pick as an example of T&A/misogyny. Faye Valentine uses her looks to hustle men. I guess this is the thing about fanservice: its there purely to titillate the audience. The character Faye is dressed provocatively because she is a femme fatale; the clothing design and camera angles are key in getting this across to the viewer. Faye’s story is one of the more touching of the series precisely _because_ of this. I think Faye should be exempt from this thread entirely. She intentionally makes herself into a sex object, including advanced cosmetic surgery, to prey on those that are weak to it. The fanservice shots, notably, only occur in the scenes when she is deliberately flaunting herself to try to lull the men (and, occasionally, women) she’s with into letting their guard down. It’s effective, and she makes a successful living as a con artist by turning herself into walking T&A - and she despises herself for doing it. She’s the most psychologically troubled character in the main cast because of it. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379/43 "2010-08-26T13:25:23Z")
> [@antonio107](#): > > I remember watching “Ninja Scroll” in high school, watching this giant ogre sucking an unconscious woman’s breasts in his mouth one by one like grapes. In Japanese pornos they have you see some really rough sex, but yet they still censor out genitalia. It was another scene later in **Ninja Scroll** that takes it off of my movies to introduce people to anime with. The same woman is unconscious and one of the demons wets a few of his fingers in his mouth and then inserts them inside the woman’s vagina. It was completely gratuitous. Then there was the whole “You have to sleep with him to save him” thing. I like Ninja Scroll but there are a few parts of it that bother me. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379/44 "2010-08-26T14:07:55Z")
> [@Mekhazzio](#): > > I think Faye should be exempt from this thread entirely. She intentionally makes herself into a sex object, including advanced cosmetic surgery, to prey on those that are weak to it. … Then there’s Mikuru Asahina, in the **Haruhi Suzumiya** universe. Yes, Haruhi (a girl) dresses up Mikuru (another girl) for fan service and blackmail. However, Mikuru is a time-traveller, sent back in time by her older self to keep an eye on Haruhi. Her older self knows what her younger self will go through, so she undergoes the fan service to serve her own aims – even though it’s not really clear what those aims are. ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379/45 "2010-08-26T14:26:59Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > > [@antonio107](#): > > > > I remember watching “Ninja Scroll” in high school, watching this giant ogre sucking an unconscious woman’s breasts in his mouth one by one like grapes. In Japanese pornos they have you see some really rough sex, but yet they still censor out genitalia. > > It was another scene later in **Ninja Scroll** that takes it off of my movies to introduce people to anime with. The same woman is unconscious and one of the demons wets a few of his fingers in his mouth and then inserts them inside the woman’s vagina. It was completely gratuitous. Then there was the whole “You have to sleep with him to save him” thing. I like Ninja Scroll but there are a few parts of it that bother me. Yeesh. Didn’t remember that one!! Seems I need to re-watch it – er, \*not \*re-watch it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogynism-in-anime/551379.md?page=2)