Misogyny and Moderation, again

[MandaJo]

Well, I had a busy afternoon and there’s now way too much to respond to; I am sorry. This is why I start threads like literally once every few years.

@Acsenray

She’s not talking about silencing a viewpoint. She’s talking about rejecting demeaning expressions.

This is what I am trying to say and I honestly feel like attempts to make this about the topic, not about the moderation of the words, is a strawman.

@Jonathan_Chance

Not my forum, of course, but that’s absolute nonsense. If one requires validation before one can speak then one is ceding one’s right to be heard at all. That’s your choice, certainly. But don’t use it as an excuse to dodge an issue.

It’s pithy, I know, but I’ve long been fond of the saying, “If you take what they give you, you get what you deserve.”

You want to effect change? You want to see new paradigms? Speak loudly and firmly. No one can give you the authority to be self-actualized and possess your own agency. Only you can do that. If you choose not to, then fine. That’s your call and I’ll support you in it. But don’t tell me you need someone else’s permission to speak.

I’ve been doing this for TWENTY FUCKING YEARS. And what I want is your, as in the moderator’s support. When women say “Wow, that’s offensive” I don’t want moderation to respond with “I hope the OP can see how some people MIGHT FIND what he said offensive” but no moderator instruction to avoid that sort of language. That’s not fucking support.

And this happens over and over and over again. And every time we dance this dance: any discussion of HOW something is said turns into a defense of WHAT was said. There’s this “dude camaraderie” aesthetic and while women are allowed to be here, we are supposed to just understand that this is how dudes talk and it’s unfair to cramp their style.

And it does limit my ability to participate because I can’t participate without coming in loaded for bear. I can’t discuss the issue and just leave the offensive language–to do so is to appear to condone it. Before I can speak at all, I have to throw a fit about the language, because how can I talk about a complex and nuanced issue and ignore the fact that the place of women in this narrative is that of an object. And when I do, I know that the moderation is going to, at most, suggest that “some people might see it as offensive”

Acsenray said what I wasn’t around to say better than I could say it:

@Acsenray

Is that what you’d say to a non-white person faced with a thread in which racial epithets and hate speech are being freely tossed around and unmoderated?

Change isn’t just about the determination of the oppressed group being willing to face hate speech. It’s also about the society at large making it socially unacceptable.

@Acsenray

Her issue is not literally about whether the topic of the thread is exclusively about men or women’s anatomies.

It’s that the tenor of the discussion is one that uses language that is disrespectful to women, this making her feel disrespected by the social atmosphere of the conversation and thus not wanting to be part of that atmosphere.

The same thing would be true for me for example if a thread accepted the use of demeaning language about people of my race or age or religion or body type. If I’m an overweight person, I’m not going to participate in a thread in which the other participants freely use terms that are demeaning and humiliating about fat people—fatasses, porkers, pigs, oinkers, lazy disgusting fat bastards cramming their faces.

Regardless of whether the topic is a valid topic of discussion, the tenor of the language is exclusionary. That’s the point.