# Misogyny and pop culture: don't yuck my yum! (Spoilers for the movie Poor Things) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 4, 2024, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107 "2024-02-04T22:16:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/301 "2024-02-06T14:33:21Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I think you are feeling defensive of this movie. What is “feeling defensive” supposed to mean? It seems to me that it’s ascribing motivation without evidence and attacking the poster with vague insinuations of _them_ being a misogynist, rather than addressing the substantive issue, their stated _reasons_ for liking the movie. But of course you really can’t express any useful opinion on their stated reasons, because as I recall you said you haven’t seen the movie? I have _some_ interest in reviews, I’m not going to spend money on something where there’s broad consensus from people I respect that it’s misogynistic. But all this thread (and the movie thread) have done is compel me to watch this movie as soon as it streams, and at this point I’m going to get decisively off the fence and say that I too have zero interest in ill-informed speculation from people who _haven’t seen the fucking movie_. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/302 "2024-02-06T14:57:30Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Lemme try to explain better. There are layers. Thanks for taking the trouble, but I fear @Beckdawrek is not going to listen, and @Kimstu already understands this. I too am mystified by > [@Babale](#): > > I _really_ don’t understand why @Kimstu is so insistent on defending a hypothetical version of Beck’s argument. I really don’t get the enabling of the withdrawal into martyrdom whenever she’s called on her offensive bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/303 "2024-02-06T15:25:15Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Mendacious? You mean intentionally lying? Accusing me of exaggerating and twisting every criticism of this movie is stating that I am intentionally presenting untruths as true. That’s saying I am lying. Now is _that_ a lie? I personally believe Hanlon’s law likely applies. Or you have some other personal reason to have something up your behind. I can recommend some good laxatives if you need to clear the obstruction? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/304 "2024-02-06T15:26:53Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > to watch this movie as soon as it streams, FWIW the visuals made me glad we saw it in the theater. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/305 "2024-02-06T15:28:39Z")
It’s cosplay + crossdressing, don’t think there’s any more to it than that. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/306 "2024-02-06T15:32:35Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > It’s cosplay + crossdressing, don’t think there’s any more to it than that Sorry, I meant - maybe the reason that some people crossplayed as Jesus is a pun on the word “crossplay”. But, maybe I am reading too much into it, and there’s just a non ironic market for ‘hot girl crossplaying as scantily clad Jesus’. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/307 "2024-02-06T15:33:46Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > Mendacious? You mean intentionally lying? > > Accusing me of exaggerating and twisting every criticism of this movie is stating that I am intentionally presenting untruths as true. That’s saying I am lying. > > Now is _that_ a lie? I personally believe Hanlon’s No, people exaggerate and misinterpret stuff unintentionally all the time. Especially when they are emotionally involved. I did not accuse you of lying. I’m still not accusing you of lying. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/308 "2024-02-06T15:35:19Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > But, maybe I am reading too much into it, and there’s just a non ironic market for ‘hot girl crossplaying as scantily clad Jesus’. [Rule 63](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_63) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/309 "2024-02-06T15:36:58Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > there’s just a non ironic market for ‘hot girl crossplaying as scantily clad Jesus’. I think the operative words there are “hot girls” and “scantily clad”. The rest is superfluous. Although many of the cosplayers I know (including myself there) do it for themselves and their friends, not really the audience. But then, I’ve never crossplayed - well, unless Frank-N-Furter counts. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/310 "2024-02-06T16:04:49Z")
Photo please. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/311 "2024-02-06T17:11:24Z")
Oh, no, this was in … probably '91, '92? There might be photos, but I don’t have them. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/312 "2024-02-06T17:27:26Z")
No conflict between a film being “disturbing” and being deliberately misogynistic; that is a device among others. Cf. also _Antichrist_ and reactions thereto, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/313 "2024-02-06T18:04:00Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Oh, no, this was in … probably '91, '92? There might be photos, but I don’t have them. Do you still have the costume? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/314 "2024-02-06T18:06:20Z")
Ha ha, no. Nor would I fit it any more. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/315 "2024-02-06T18:07:59Z")
Sounds like a cover-up… ---
**Author:** ![pjd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pjd/32/3009_2.png) [@pjd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pjd)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/316 "2024-02-06T18:21:38Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > I used one too many ellipsis’s. You can’t have too many ellipsis’s ………………… imho…fwiw… ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/317 "2024-02-06T18:35:36Z")
Uh, at this point, you may want to clear your browser history… ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/318 "2024-02-06T18:55:34Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I feel just the opposite. Having an opinion about something you’ve read about seems completely natural. Whereas having no opinion at all of a book just because you haven’t read it yourself seems utterly bizarre. I’m with **pulykamell** on this one. If you haven’t personally engaged with a work, and are just going off reviews, you don’t really have an opinion about the work, you have an opinion about how the work’s advertised. Which is fine, as a way to triage how we all spend our limited time, but it’s not the same as actually knowing what the work is about and how it’s about it. Even if you’re reading in-depth criticism, you are at best relaying _someone else’s_ opinion about the work. This can be frustrating to people who have experienced the work, and are trying to have a discussion about it, because there’s nothing to engage with there. “I’ve seen the movie, and I didn’t like it because it was misogynistic,” means you can discuss the issues that person had with the movie. “I haven’t seen the movie, but I heard it was misogynistic,” - there’s not really a way to _debate_ that, because the person making the assertion about the movie isn’t actually in the conversation. It’s not quite a threadshit, but it feels very adjacent to one. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/319 "2024-02-06T19:12:58Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m with **pulykamell** on this one. If you haven’t personally engaged with a work, and are just going off reviews, you don’t really have an opinion about the work, you have an opinion about how the work’s advertised. Which is fine, as a way to triage how we all spend our limited time, but it’s not the same as actually knowing what the work is about and how it’s about it. Even if you’re reading in-depth criticism, you are at best relaying _someone else’s_ opinion about the work. There are some fuzzy cases. When I first read some of Dave Chappelle’s comedy on trans folk, I was pretty comfortable saying he was being an asshole. Some people were like, “No, you have to watch his performance, he’s not being as hateful as the words on the page sound!” and I didn’t have much patience with that: I didn’t want to give him money just so I could say, “Yup, he sure says the things he’s quoted as saying.” Since then, Facebook spent awhile showing me snippets of his shows, and it turns out that yup, he sure said the things he was quoted as saying, and nope, it wasn’t any better than I thought. I never saw the Atlas Shrugged movie, because I’m pretty sure it was a cat turd sold as a Hundred Grand bar. And I’m comfortable saying that, based on what I know about Ayn Rand, the novel, and the producers of the movie. Something like _Poor Things_? I haven’t seen it. I also know I’m sometimes unaware of issues with male gaze, and need to pay attention to folks who bring them up. _Eonwe’s_ concerns are something I can consider if I see the movie, and I sure don’t mind hearing them. But I won’t take them as seriously as I’d take concerns from someone who’s actually seen the movie. > [@Miller](#): > > This can be frustrating to people who have experienced the work, and are trying to have a discussion about it, because there’s nothing to engage with there. This part I agree with. It might be more appropriate to say something like, “I’ve heard that Chappelle keeps making jokes whose punchlines are ‘transwomen sometimes have penises,’ and that sounds pretty fucked up to me, is that true?” ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/320 "2024-02-06T19:14:27Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Honestly, i forgot about the butt plugs, and wouldn’t’ve have been surprised if the movie actually was g-rated. I would have no qualms bringing a 15 year old to _everything everywhere all at once_. Same here. “Everything Everywhere All at Once” has violence which I think would at the least make it PG-13. And following the movie is not easy so I think it’d take a bright 15yo to track with the story. But yeah, I wouldn’t be fussed with a 15yo seeing it beyond worrying they might be bored. “Poor Things” though…no way for a 15yo (and I say that thinking back to when I was 15…I don’t think I would be “damaged” seeing it but I don’t think I’d be ready for something like that either). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107.md?page=17)