# Misogyny and pop culture: don't yuck my yum! (Spoilers for the movie Poor Things) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 4, 2024, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107 "2024-02-04T22:16:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2024, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/361 "2024-02-07T17:59:19Z")
Huh. Jesus, Stephen. Did not think he would write something that bad. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2024, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/362 "2024-02-07T18:04:06Z")
Look, he likes nipples, and he wants to insert them into his…fiction. Nothing wrong with that, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2024, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/363 "2024-02-07T18:41:24Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Look, he likes nipples, and he wants to insert them into his…fiction. Nothing wrong with that, I suppose At least he uses the word “nipples”. Unlike Jim Butcher, who only ever refers to them as “tips of the breasts”. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2024, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/364 "2024-02-07T19:29:34Z")
Tabitha must have been busy elsewhere during the entire process of writing and editing _IT._ ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2024, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/365 "2024-02-07T20:04:48Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Huh. Jesus, Stephen. Did not think he would write something that bad. I think _It_ is one of his best books, but more than a little problematic about women. Leaving aside the teenage gang bang(!), he has a female domestic violence survivor who plays right into the incredibly damaging, “She actually secretly _likes_ getting beaten” trope. I don’t generally think of him as having a major problem writing women, though. However I am reading _Billy Summers_ right now (surprise! MC secretly wants to be a writer!) and from reviews I’ve read it sounds like the protagonist’s relationship with a sexual assault survivor goes into cringe territory. So I’ll call him hit and miss, I guess. I thought _Gerald’s Game_ was perfect. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2024, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/366 "2024-02-07T22:35:23Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Huh. Jesus, Stephen. Did not think he would write something that bad. Technically, I think it was the cocaine that wrote that. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/367 "2024-02-08T14:45:57Z")
I wonder if Tabitha did the cocaine with him. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/368 "2024-02-16T11:43:46Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Second, she thinks that firing women who engage in sex work somehow empowers women. That’s a pretty harmful position IMO, and I was pretty hostile to her over that–but that’s not what’s going on here. Oh, goody. That thread in IMHO has been bumped, and look who’s back, continuing with her slut-shaming bullshit? I’m sure she’ll come over here and say I must only care because I want to see boobies, because her essentialist worldview doesn’t allow for people having actual opinions that differ from hers. All that matters is that sex workers get ostracized and fired, because “they know it’s wrong.” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/369 "2024-02-16T14:35:18Z")
> [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](#): > > > [@BigT](#): > > > > …straw feminists lines as “A movie written by a man, based on a book written by a man, directed by a man,” ⁢ > > You really don’t see how this might be irritating to a woman? ⁢ I didn’t say that. That phrase is not being used to discuss how women feel. It’s being used as a criticism of a specific work. And it’s not a good criticism, because there are works that are written by and directed by men that aren’t bad. Eonwe’s actual point is to say that a lack of female involvement in the writing process has (allegedly) resulted in the male fantasy version of female empowerment. I also note that you took that phrase out of context. My point in that is to describe what parts of the post I think created the confrontational tone. * * * It seems I approach this differently. I saw what happened, and wanted to understand why people were upset. I rejected the OP’s belief that it was because of misogyny, or people objecting to discussing misogyny of a work. It’s just considered rude as fuck to come into a discussion about a fictional work and attack it, when you haven’t even seen it. And, because Eonwe violated that social rule, they were seen as having bad intent. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/370 "2024-02-16T14:43:27Z")
Isn’t using the word slut shaming in and of itself? I hardly ever get to say In and of itself! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/371 "2024-02-16T14:47:11Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > Isn’t using the word slut shaming in and of itself? What? This is a pretty common term to refer to that sort of behavior. I’m fine not using it, if there’s an alternative term. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/372 "2024-02-16T15:06:31Z")
You better stop mansplaining to her or we’ll have half a dozen posters here explaining how Beck is only slut shaming\* from a place of feminist concern for women \*pending a better term being suggested ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/373 "2024-02-16T15:30:56Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > Isn’t using the word slut shaming in and of itself? No. Why? The most widespread and insidious use of the concept certainly _does_ avoid explicit use of the word, masquerading as something virtuous. Slut-shaming absolutely _should_ be called by its name when we see it to expose it for the ugly thing that it is. That’s kind of the point. The exposure also entails a sense of reclaiming the word slut to empower women - to dare people who slut-shame to justify _why_ the concept of a slut has ever been used as slur. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/374 "2024-02-16T17:20:34Z")
I remember the “slut walks” that were popular several years ago. I think the idea was to emphasize that women had a right to dress and act how they please without shame, regardless of how the bluenoses of the world felt about it. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/375 "2024-02-16T17:26:35Z")
One of the very few threads I’ve ever had to mute, it was so frustrating. I’m wondering how homemade porn (consensual, not “revenge” porn) fits into all this. I can understand objections to the mega-porn industry, but for some entrepreneurs and people who get off on taping themselves and making extra scratch by releasing it to the world? Who gives a shit is what I say. More power to them. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/376 "2024-02-16T17:27:41Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I can understand objections to the mega-porn industry, but for some entrepreneurs and people who get off on taping themselves and making extra scratch by releasing it to the world? Who gives a shit is what I say. More power to them. Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/377 "2024-02-16T18:57:59Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > …where all the important decisions are made by that white boy… Tom Sawyer is saved when Jim decides to give up his freedom to save Tom’s life. It is, of course, still primarily Huck’s story, and about his challenge to reject racist beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8baadc/32.png) [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicest_of_the_Damned)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2024, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/378 "2024-02-17T00:48:43Z")
I don’t know how Eonwe identifies so I don’t know if they are writing as a woman or as an “ally” but I don’t think it matters for the purpose of this discussion. So I will respond accordingly … > [@BigT](#): > > That phrase is not being used to discuss how women feel. It’s being used as a criticism of a specific work. How a woman feels about a film is going to be part of their criticism. > [@BigT](#): > > And it’s not a good criticism, because there are works that are written by and directed by men that aren’t bad. There are but that doesn’t mean this is one of them. . > [@BigT](#): > > Eonwe’s actual point is to say that a lack of female involvement in the writing process has (allegedly) resulted in the male fantasy version of female empowerment. Yep. That is their point. This view was informed partly by people who have watched the movie saying this. This is a complaint one hears about a lot of other movies as well. > [@BigT](#): > > It’s just considered rude as fuck to come into a discussion about a fictional work and attack it, when you haven’t even seen it. And, because Eonwe violated that social rule, they were seen as having bad intent. Whose rule is that? If you felt they were threadshitting you could have reported it. I really don’t understand the hostility to Eonwe’s original post. Most mainstream movies are still being made by men. Men often do a very bad job writing about a woman’s experience. There have been loads of reviews and critiques that discuss this, both in general and about specific movies. I have a hard time believing this is a new concept for most people here. Several posters have said that it’s fine to decide not to see a movie based on trailers and reviews. That’s exactly what Eonwe did. Why the tone policing? I don’t think they were being dismissive, I think they were expressing a perfectly valid frustration with the way things are in Hollywood. The people who are getting angry about Eonwe’s comments seem to be men. The defenders seem to be mostly women. That says a lot right there. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2024, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/379 "2024-02-17T01:05:41Z")
> [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](#): > > Men often do a very bad job writing about a woman’s experience. I keep seeing this in this thread (and the one that started this one). What is this “woman’s experience” you and others keep speaking of? It makes it sound like there is one experience and men (mostly) get it wrong. All women know this…right? Which is ridiculous. There are millions of experiences women have. Heck, @BigT has firm beliefs on sex work. I am sure not all women would agree with her. So, when writing about female sex workers how do we decide who got the “experience” right? Who is the arbiter of this experience? Being a woman is not enough by itself because, clearly, women will disagree about it. That’s not to say there is not sexist crap out there in movies (and other art). There most certainly is. But I am not sure merely saying a man wrote something is sufficient, by itself, to come to that conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2024, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-and-pop-culture-dont-yuck-my-yum-spoilers-for-the-movie-poor-things/997107/380 "2024-02-17T01:08:06Z")
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