LITERALLY NO ONE HERE HAS SUGGESTED THIS.
Flag my posts or stop making accusations against me.
And that is again a complete non sequitur to my post, where I noted that you were misrepresenting and strawmanning what I actually said.
I didn’t say that you disagreed with what I said, I said that you “disagreed” with something I didn’t say.
What Eonwe was expressing was a strong personal opinion. They were not asking anyone to agree with their personal opinion. Your conditions don’t apply.
With regard to a specific work, if there’s no external consensus among reviewers that I know and respect who have seen the movie that it’s misogynistic, third-hand guesswork from Eonwe about what might be in the movie certainly isn’t something I’m going to give any weight to. And I’m perfectly entitled to express that personal opinion, without any expectation that Eonwe would agree with it, and perhaps with an appropriate level of sarcasm.
To be clear, we’re not talking about the broad issue of the misogynistic male gaze in movies in general, which Eonwe can certainly speak to. We’re talking about the merits of a specific work, and whether it is actually a problematic example of the male gaze. Which Eonwe really cannot speak to with any credibility, because (I’m not sure if this has been made clear yet in the thread) they haven’t seen the fucking movie.
I dunno. I think I would be annoyed, so it’s not like I wouldn’t be affected at all. But I could clearly demonstrate why they were wrong, is the core piece of it for me. If someone came in with such an opinion, I would try to disabuse them of it, probably by talking to them about their concerns.
This speaks to a larger issue with CS threads which I think I have run into before, which is that if enough people really like a movie or a show, contrary opinions about it just aren’t welcome, and often accused of hijacking the thread. I’m not in these threads all the time but the last time I recall this happening is when you were no longer allowed to discuss in the WandaVision thread how unhappy you were with the opening episodes because that doesn’t count as discussion, I guess, if everyone else wants to talk about how it’s the best show ever.
I respect that Eonwe didn’t see the movie, which casts the whole thing in a different light, but I’m not sure I would want to preclude people who haven’t seen a film from discussing it, too, especially if they have reservations that might be overcome.
I don’t know what the motives of other people are in this thread, but my comments aren’t driven by a particular agenda or desired narrative, I’m just saying what I think I see and trying to make sense out of it as much as anyone else. I think if Eonwe is guilty of anything it might be unfairly lumping you in with other people who shut down conversations about misogyny in film (which happens all the damned time.) I remember back in my social justice internet warrior days going off on a friend who said something that rubbed me the wrong way, and when he clarified, no, I didn’t mean that in the way you interpreted it, I apologized to him, but he wasn’t offended, he essentially just said, “I looked and quacked like a duck. It’s no surprise you thought I was a duck.”
I think Eonwe just thinks you’re a duck. I can understand why you would take umbrage at that, as it’s directed at you personally, and I’m not trying to invalidate your anger. I just think this OP and the hostility that generated it is about something bigger and realer than what happened in that thread. But since Eonwe isn’t even partipating in the thread at this point, I don’t see the point in going on, and anyway I’m not even supposed to be here, I’m supposed to be on Sabbatical (I’m really not kidding when I say I’ve got executive function issues right now, so take all of that with a grain of salt.)
So, sorry if my responses made you feel shitty.
Um no. That does not address the statement made. The statement made is the clear statement that they are NOT just giving an opinion based on a limited impression but a “hearty fuck you” to me for suggesting that their opinion does not accurately reflect what the movie actually is, a claim that those who have seen the movie are not more informed about what is in the movie than they are and should not “pretend” we are.
I believe them when they say that is what they think.
What do you think about that clear statement of their belief? Do think they are lying? Do you agree with that specific belief?
@Spice_Weasel here’s the thing. Look at that interaction. I stated extremely clearly and explicitly that my problem was not what the thoughts about the movie were, but that they were stated so categorically and with such hostility without having seen it. The response was to persist in the delusion that I was objecting to the criticism itself, along with that explicit claim that seeing the movie doesn’t make me more informed about it than they are.
There was no quack. There is a delusional poster.
Back to your Nietzsche analogy. The person tells you that you don’t know more about the book than they do just because you read it and they did not, that you should stop pretending that you are more informed about what the book is than they are. They saw the book cover! They have heard stuff! You should fuck off. And you are an antisemite and fascist for trying to disabuse them about it.
Explaining this movie may not be teaching Torah while standing on one foot but neither does it lend itself well to pithy one line or one paragraph synopsis. Again I do NOT recommend this movie broadly. It in many ways was disturbing. I remain more surprised by the number of other people and critics who liked it than the number who dislike it for any of a number of reasons. But it really is extremely difficult to have a fruitful conversation about it with people who have not seen it.
FWIW I know it’s the Pit and all, but if everyone just reduced the hostility by about 80%, I think the difference between what y’all are saying isn’t actually all that great.
Spoilsport.
I was so enjoying watching people I respect and like tear each other to shreds.
Did I say that out loud? Oh dear!
Stop claiming that you like and respect people, you obsequious fucker.
I wasn’t talking about you, dickhead.
Ok, now I’m a bit worried I might come back to these posts in a few years time out of context and wonder what on earth was going on.
I confess I’m wondering that right now.
You’re in luck: