# Misogyny, victim-blaming, and the board culture (yet again) **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [November 15, 2019, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504 "2019-11-15T19:37:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/181 "2019-11-20T05:29:50Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > Ford attacked kavanaugh with the intention of blocking the nomination. …this sentence lacks context. Here is context: > [@Christine Blasey Ford](#): > > As a constituent, I expect that you will maintain this as confidential until we have further opportunity to speak. > > Brett Kavanaugh physically and sexually assaulted me during high school in the early 1980’s. He conducted these acts with the assistance of REDACTED. > > … > > Kavanaugh physically pushed me into a bedroom as I was headed for a bathroom up a short stair well from the living room. They locked the door and played loud music precluding any successful attempt to yell for help. > > Kavanaugh was on top of me while laughing with REDACTED, who periodically jumped onto Kavanaugh. They both laughed as Kavanaugh tried to disrobe me in their highly inebriated state. With Kavanaugh’s hand over my mouth I feared he may inadvertently kill me. > **[Live updates: Brett Kavanaugh and Christine Blasey Ford hearing on sex...](https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-news/kavanaugh-ford-sexual-assault-hearing/h_3c7548bda148a000c2f48b27de117b2c)** > > Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh and Christine Blasey Ford, a woman who has accused him of sexual assault, are testifying in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee today. Follow here for the latest. The US Supreme Court, in the context of “Supreme Courts” worldwide, is one great big huge fucking clusterfuck. Appointments are highly political. They are lifetime appointments. There is no way that this makes any sense at all. Yet here we are. So if this were \*\*my \*\*experience, then I too would share my experiences in order to stop this man from a lifetime appointment to a job that is one of the cornerstones of “the American Experiment”. > [@](#): > > She intended for him to be denied the court seat and to be ostracized. And if you had had a similar experience to Ford would you not consider it your civic duty to do the same to deny him that seat as well? > [@](#): > > Most likely elements of her story were true but any details that would have made kavanaugh not look as bad are suspiciously missing. The story isn’t very long. I’ve quoted the salient parts. It isn’t suspicious that things to make “kavanaugh not look as bad are” missing. It really is hard to find the positive in being locked in a room with music playing so loudly people wouldn’t be able to hear you scream, its hard to find the positive in having someone attempt to disrobe you against your will. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/182 "2019-11-20T05:34:25Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > Sure. But it makes her story less likely to be true in the first place. Especially as the reason she told it was for political reasons. > > Remember, intent matters. If kavanaugh consciously decided to commit a rape once why did he never do it again? In general the law doesn’t consider a defendant guilty of a crime if they didn’t mean to do it. (being drunk is a grey area) Apologists like you are why this board is having trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/183 "2019-11-20T05:34:34Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > Remember, intent matters. …depends on the context. > [@](#): > > If kavanaugh consciously decided to commit a rape once Rapists often don’t ‘consciously’ decided to commit a rape. Rapists don’t alway think they’ve raped. > [@](#): > > why did he never do it again? You are aware that there was more than [one allegation?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brett_Kavanaugh_Supreme_Court_nomination#Sexual_assault_allegations) > [@](#): > > In general the law doesn’t consider a defendant guilty of a crime if they didn’t mean to do it. (being drunk is a grey area) In general and in specific: this isn’t how the law works at all. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/184 "2019-11-20T05:38:18Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Apologists like you are why this board is having trouble. I’m not apologizing. My theory fits the evidence. Possibly kavanaugh is guilty and maybe he isn’t but Ford attacked him. And the board is having trouble because it uses an obsolete format - tweets or Reddit posts or unclothed Instagram influencer posts or posts from someone you know on Facebook - all those compete with message boards and have more audience. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/185 "2019-11-20T05:38:56Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Apologists like you are why this board is having trouble. That seems awfully subjective and unsubstantiated. ---
**Author:** ![Amara\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7993a0/32.png) [@Amara\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amara_1)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/186 "2019-11-20T05:40:04Z")
I really wish that posters wouldn’t take the bait from SamuelA and conveniently change the topic of the thread. Though it’s awfully welcoming for the moderators to make thiis such a pro-rape safe space. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/187 "2019-11-20T05:48:19Z")
> [@Amara\_1](#): > > I really wish that posters wouldn’t take the bait from SamuelA and conveniently change the topic of the thread. > Though it’s awfully welcoming for the moderators to make thiis such a pro-rape safe space. Just hit that report button on all the pro-rape posts and I am sure they will get back with you. Sure is awfully convenient that Ford speaks out only when it matters. Also umm in her own story, I looked it up, and uh no raping occurred, her clothes stayed on, and the other boy who she thought was part of it helped her. Basically the only thing that happened is she thought something bad was going to happen and nothing did. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/188 "2019-11-20T05:49:40Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > I’m not apologizing. My theory fits the evidence. Possibly kavanaugh is guilty and maybe he isn’t but Ford attacked him. And the board is having trouble because it uses an obsolete format - tweets or Reddit posts or unclothed Instagram influencer posts or posts from someone you know on Facebook - all those compete with message boards and have more audience. Of course she attacked him. He put her in fear of her personal safety, and quite possibly her life. Even years after the fact, a man such as Kavanaugh doesn’t deserve to be appointed to the Supreme Court. But we’re hijacking the thread. I’ve decided not to engage with you anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Modesty\_Blaise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Modesty\_Blaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Modesty_Blaise)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/189 "2019-11-20T05:53:13Z")
Wow, this thread is seriously nauseating. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/190 "2019-11-20T05:58:06Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Of course she attacked him. He put her in fear of her personal safety, and quite possibly her life. All part of the plan. Intentionally, right? Something he consciously decided to do between shots, right? So because he intentionally decided to make someone feel in fear of their life - while being a perfect gentlemen to hundreds of other women around the same time as this - he doesn’t deserve to be justice. Except, uh. He was drunk. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/191 "2019-11-20T05:59:23Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > Sure is awfully convenient that **Ford speaks out only when it matters.** …it isn’t a matter of convenience. It simply matters more now than ever before. > [@SamuelA](#): > > All part of the plan. Intentionally, right? Something he consciously decided to do between shots, right? So because he intentionally decided to make someone feel in fear of their life - while being a perfect gentlemen to hundreds of other women around the same time as this - he doesn’t deserve to be justice. > > Except, uh. He was drunk. Intention is irrelevant. This isn’t how the law works in real life. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/192 "2019-11-20T05:59:45Z")
> [@Modesty\_Blaise](#): > > Wow, this thread is seriously nauseating. You, of course, are under no obligation to read it. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/193 "2019-11-20T06:02:28Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > All part of the plan. Intentionally, right? Something he consciously decided to do between shots, right? So because he intentionally decided to make someone feel in fear of their life - while being a perfect gentlemen to hundreds of other women around the same time as this - he doesn’t deserve to be justice. > > Except, uh. He was drunk. Im drunk right now. Please use simple words to explain your point to me that do NOT sound as if it’s ok if he was drunk and stupid…or just outright say that IS your point. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/194 "2019-11-20T06:06:18Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You, of course, are under no obligation to read it. Ditka, just so we’re on the same page: a. With Ford’s accusations, she makes them for political gain b. When she “recalls” what happens, her mind is aware of the _consequences_ of each word. Human memory is unreliable enough as it is, and I have personally dealt with people who mis-remember something that **just happened seconds ago** in favor of an explanation that is more in their favor. (funnily enough they usually turn out to be women but that’s probably just because my examples are biased) So regardless of if she intended it this way, it is vanishingly improbable that her story is and unbiased and true account of what happened. Human witnesses are enormously falliable even for simple things. c. Even if true, Kavanaugh didn’t commit a rape and he didn’t commit attempted murder. 99% of the alleged crime was what Ford thought was going to happen, not what did. d. We are judging a man, not for what he did when he was sober, but what he did when he was drunk. Despite the fact that any educated adult knows that alcohol causes severe loss of neurological function. e. Ok, so maybe we should be judging the man for getting drunk in the first place. But he was a teenage boy. In the 80s. Everybody around him is doing it. (both drinking and probably doing raunchy sexual stuff). So he makes like the Romans and now elderly people sit in Congress judging him for what happened based on a biased 37 year old account. f. Everyone wants to be PC and that means “we believe anyone’s story of rape, as long as they are a woman!”. After all, tons of powerful men turn out to be guilty. Hashtag MeToo. g. Everyone wants to be PC and Kavanaugh is a Republican from the privileged gender and race. Fuck him. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/195 "2019-11-20T06:14:26Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > What if she forgot making consensual advances to Kavanaugh, something you would reasonably expect a teenage girl to do when in the presence of a high status male? You know, I’ve wasted way too much time trying to come up with a coherent response to this. I’ve figured out the problem. I’ve been trying to come up with a coherent response to utter nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/196 "2019-11-20T06:14:45Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > Ditka, just so we’re on the same page: > > a. With Ford’s accusations, she makes them for political gain > > b. When she “recalls” what happens, her mind is aware of the _consequences_ of each word. Human memory is unreliable enough as it is, and I have personally dealt with people who mis-remember something that **just happened seconds ago** in favor of an explanation that is more in their favor. > > So regardless of if she intended it this way, it is vanishingly improbable that her story is and unbiased and true account of what happened. Human witnesses are enormously falliable even for simple things. > > c. Even if true, Kavanaugh didn’t commit a rape and he didn’t commit attempted murder. 99% of the alleged crime was what Ford thought was going to happen, not what did. > > d. We are judging a man, not for what he did when he was sober, but what he did when he was drunk. Despite the fact that any educated adult knows that alcohol causes severe loss of neurological function. > > e. Ok, so maybe we should be judging the man for getting drunk in the first place. But he was a teenage boy. In the 80s. Everybody around him is doing it. (both drinking and probably doing raunchy sexual stuff). So he makes like the Romans and now elderly people sit in Congress judging him for what happened based on a biased 37 year old account. > > f. Everyone wants to be PC and that means “we believe anyone’s story of rape, as long as they are a woman!”. After all, tons of powerful men turn out to be guilty. Hashtag MeToo. > > g. Everyone wants to be PC and Kavanaugh is a Republican from the privileged gender and race. Fuck him. This is absolutely disgusting The fact that posts like this are allowed to stand is the reason why so many women have left, and continue to leave. As others have said, the Dope has turned into a safe space for apologists of sexual assault and rape. It seems like the mods are happy with this situation. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/197 "2019-11-20T06:25:04Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > This is absolutely disgusting The fact that posts like this are allowed to stand is the reason why so many women have left, and continue to leave. As others have said, the Dope has turned into a safe space for apologists of sexual assault and rape. > > It seems like the mods are happy with this situation. See ya then. I stand by this post as a credible interpretation of the facts. The only bit I exaggerated is Terry Cruise and possibly a couple more men have made MeToo accusations. But mostly women. Also, speaking of biased accounts - which rape am I apologizing for? Ford wasn’t raped by her account. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/198 "2019-11-20T06:35:36Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > This is absolutely disgusting The fact that posts like this are allowed to stand is the reason why so many women have left, and continue to leave. … I think that we have rather scant data about if / why women are leaving. The plural of anecdotes is not data. In one of these threads, someone said that we don’t have demographic data, it’s all just perception, and I think that’s pretty spot on. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/199 "2019-11-20T07:16:56Z")
Nope, it really is because people like you are gross and are being allowed to continue to be gross and grossed out women don’t stick around to see if maybe there’s something worthwhile behind the grossness. Because we know better, because we deal with men being gross on a daily basis and after a while we just refuse to stick around where gross men are being gross and are being enabled by other gross men. Y’all can have your kitty litter sandbox to play in all by yourselves. Enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/200 "2019-11-20T07:19:43Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > Nope, it really is because people like you are gross and are being allowed to continue to be gross and grossed out women don’t stick around to see if maybe there’s something worthwhile behind the grossness. Because we know better, because we deal with men being gross on a daily basis and after a while we just refuse to stick around where gross men are being gross and are being enabled by other gross men. Y’all can have your kitty litter sandbox to play in all by yourselves. Enjoy. You’re voice isn’t data! (Again, sarcasm) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504.md?page=11)