# Misogyny, victim-blaming, and the board culture (yet again) **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [November 15, 2019, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504 "2019-11-15T19:37:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/341 "2019-11-23T22:31:41Z")
> [@TheCuse](#): > > That doesn’t deserve a response. Then be quiet. ---
**Author:** ![TheCuse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thecuse/32/2854_2.png) [@TheCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheCuse)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/342 "2019-11-23T23:13:45Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Then be quiet. I don’t take orders from you. Grow up. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/343 "2019-11-24T01:22:53Z")
> [@TheCuse](#): > > I don’t take orders from you. Grow up. I thought you said my post didn’t deserve a response, this is your second such response. Back to the OP, the Dope made a lot of noise about tackling misogyny, but it just doesn’t have it in it, it’s run by old men for old men; they don’t recognize sexism and that’s not going to change. It’s why this place is dying. In a thread about someone living in the same neighborhood as a porn star, you have a mod making the same dumb jokes as all the other old men, it doesn’t occur to them to give a shit. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/344 "2019-11-25T13:35:40Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > At least two women posters decided they were leaving the board, due to board policies/practices on misogyny and related issues, in this thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=885750](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=885750) > > I assume the staff is concerned about this. What is being done, or discussed? Is there a plan to fix this? No. Back in post #73, I said: > [@RTFirefly](#): > > I think the difference here is that when shit is thrown, it looks way different depending on whether you’re viewing it from a safe place and seeing it as an isolated instance, or whether it’s thrown in your direction, just like the time before and the time before that. > > We need mods who can relate to what it looks like from the latter perspective. > > That intelligent women who had worthwhile things to say keep dropping off the boards on account of this shit is enough evidence for me - _and should be enough evidence for the mods_ - that this shit is being under-enforced. **Bone** said in post #120 this wasn’t worthy of a response because I wasn’t making an argument. And specifically said the first paragraph in my post reminded him of the treatment of not women posters, but rather conservative posters on this board. I dropped out of this thread shortly after that because why bother if that’s how the mods are reacting to this? I love this place because there are a lot of really intelligent and decent people here, and I find the message board format more conducive to good discussions than Twitter or blog comments or whatnot. But in response to **madmonk28** ’s comment that “The Dope is a safe space for old men,” I’m having a hard time coming up with any reason to disagree. And this is not how it should be. I don’t think the Dope needs to be a “safe space” for women, but it should certainly feel more or less as safe to them as it does to me and other male posters. I would hope it would be the policy of this board that that should be the case, and that the board would actively work to make it so. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/345 "2019-11-25T15:28:47Z")
In the Pit thread, Shodan linked to a pitting of me-----because I called out slut shaming of an 11-year-old rape victim as,. you guessed it, slut shaming. No, she does _not_ have a nineteen-year-old “boyfriend.” No, she did not “put herself in that situation.” No one decent cares about her outfit. What was remarkable about that thread was how vicious the victim blaming was, how _determined_ the victim blamers were that they were not victim blaming—mostly because they didn’t say, “I blame the victim,”; how \*deliberately \* ignorant the victim blamers were about actual rape, and how little has changed in the intervening eight years. Rape myths are not a difference of opinion. They are hate speech, plain and simple. Plus, the use of words like “hysterical” belie a mindset and a vicious stereotype about women, closely linked to the “women always lie about rape” that shows up so often on the Dope. How come _that_ ignorance apparently isn’t included in the “fighting ignorance” thing? There’s now a substantial body of remarkably consistent research on rape, and rape myths, so what is one to make of people who apparently flinch away from it the way vampires do from garlic? Rape is an extremely interesting topic, because it reveals what people _really_ think about women, deep down. It’s a microcosm of where women really are in society. The fact is, that that Pit thread reveals that too many Dopers have only two speeds for women in a rape case: she’s an evil liar, or here’s a good saintly intellectually-superior woman who _says_ she’s an evil liar. Meanwhile, guys who are proven lawyers get so much benefit of the doubt that it makes you feel crazy to watch. And that’s after eight years. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/346 "2019-11-25T15:32:33Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > No. > > Back in post #73, I said: > **Bone** said in post #120 this wasn’t worthy of a response because I wasn’t making an argument. > > And specifically said the first paragraph in my post reminded him of the treatment of not women posters, but **rather** conservative posters on this board. > > I dropped out of this thread shortly after that because why bother if that’s how the mods are reacting to this? > > I love this place because there are a lot of really intelligent and decent people here, and I find the message board format more conducive to good discussions than Twitter or blog comments or whatnot. But in response to **madmonk28** ’s comment that “The Dope is a safe space for old men,” I’m having a hard time coming up with any reason to disagree. > > And this is not how it should be. I don’t think the Dope needs to be a “safe space” for women, but it should certainly feel more or less as safe to them as it does to me and other male posters. I would hope it would be the policy of this board that that should be the case, and that the board would actively work to make it so. With **Bone’s** departure, there might be an opportunity for change. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/347 "2019-11-25T15:33:49Z")
> [@margin](#): > > In the Pit thread, Shodan linked to a pitting of me-----because I called out slut shaming of an 11-year-old rape victim as,. you guessed it, slut shaming. No, she does _not_ have a nineteen-year-old “boyfriend.” No, she did not “put herself in that situation.” No one decent cares about her outfit. What was remarkable about that thread was how vicious the victim blaming was, how _determined_ the victim blamers were that they were not victim blaming—mostly because they didn’t say, “I blame the victim,”; how \*deliberately \* ignorant the victim blamers were about actual rape, and how little has changed in the intervening eight years. > > Rape myths are not a difference of opinion. They are hate speech, plain and simple. Plus, the use of words like “hysterical” belie a mindset and a vicious stereotype about women, closely linked to the “women always lie about rape” that shows up so often on the Dope. How come _that_ ignorance apparently isn’t included in the “fighting ignorance” thing? > > There’s now a substantial body of remarkably consistent research on rape, and rape myths, so what is one to make of people who apparently flinch away from it the way vampires do from garlic? > > Rape is an extremely interesting topic, because it reveals what people _really_ think about women, deep down. It’s a microcosm of where women really are in society. > > The fact is, that that Pit thread reveals that too many Dopers have only two speeds for women in a rape case: she’s an evil liar, or here’s a good saintly intellectually-superior woman who _says_ she’s an evil liar. Meanwhile, guys who are proven lawyers get so much benefit of the doubt that it makes you feel crazy to watch. > > And that’s after eight years. Thank you for providing your thoughts. I’d like to highlight that the post in question that started this thread was _not_ in the Pit. I still hold that it was clearly misogynistic in that it asserted dishonesty and malicious intent in the accuser (Ford), in addition to attempting to place blame on her for death threats. I hope the remaining moderators are still discussing this, since this issue is clearly driving away good contributors from the board. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/348 "2019-11-25T16:22:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > … I still hold that it was clearly misogynistic in that it asserted dishonesty and malicious intent in the accuser (Ford)… I don’t believe the post in question “asserted dishonesty and malicious intent”. I don’t think it was a comment either way on her dishonesty nor intent. Here, so everyone can read it again: > [@The Trump Impeachment Inquiry](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4474): > > Probably not. Dr. Blasey Ford and her allies exposed Justice Kavanaugh’s family to death threats because they thought it might help their side in a political squabble. I don’t recall many Democrats saying that was “a pretty shitty thing to do”, so the complaint now rings hollow to me. Sorry. Which part of that do you think “asserted dishonesty”? Please be specific. Which part was a commentary on her “intent”, malicious or otherwise? Again, please be specific. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/349 "2019-11-25T16:30:05Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > With **Bone’s** departure, there might be an opportunity for change. ..or not… > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Which part of that do you think “asserted dishonesty”? Please be specific. > Which part was a commentary on her “intent”, malicious or otherwise? Again, please be specific. “I’M JUST CURIOUS IF YOU HAVE ANY SOURCES TO BACK UP YOUR OPINION ?” ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/350 "2019-11-25T16:38:54Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t believe the post in question “asserted dishonesty and malicious intent”. I don’t think it was a comment either way on her dishonesty nor intent. Here, so everyone can read it again: > > Which part of that do you think “asserted dishonesty”? Please be specific. The part where you attribute different motivations to her than those she stated at the time. > [@](#): > > Which part was a commentary on her “intent”, malicious or otherwise? Again, please be specific. Same. Also the “exposed Justice Kavanaugh’s family to death threats” part. A woman is sexually assaulted, says “that guy tried to rape me” and you twist it around into “she exposed his family to death threats” as if that had been, if not actively her intent, something she should have foreseen but proceeded anyway, and damn the consequences to Kavanaugh. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/351 "2019-11-25T16:47:01Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > The part where you attribute different motivations to her than those she stated at the time. … My post didn’t attribute _any_ motivations to her. It was silent on her intent, motivations, and whether her claims were true or false. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/352 "2019-11-25T16:55:17Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > My post didn’t attribute _any_ motivations to her. > [@](#): > > \*\*because \*\*they thought it might help their side in a political squabble :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/353 "2019-11-25T17:00:58Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > My post didn’t attribute _any_ motivations to her. It was silent on her intent, motivations, and whether her claims were true or false. Ah, then “because they thought it might help their side in a political squabble” is silent on intent. Well, that’s a new one to me. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/354 "2019-11-25T18:04:36Z")
Asserting a motive (especially a malicious motive, as worded) other than “to tell her story”, “speak truth to power”, or similar, is directly implying dishonesty. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/355 "2019-11-25T18:08:22Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > My post didn’t attribute _any_ motivations to her. It was silent on her intent, motivations, and whether her claims were true or false. No it wasn’t. What you are stating right now is not true. You attributed a political motivation, specifically to help Democrats, which contradicts her claimed motivation of wanting to prevent the nomination of a man she insists assaulted her sexually (which is not a partisan motivation). Your own words are on this board for everyone to read. You can’t keep pretending you didn’t say what you said. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/356 "2019-11-25T18:33:44Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Your own words are on this board for everyone to read. You can’t keep pretending you didn’t say what you said. Weird, isn’t it? I could understand it somewhat in the early days of this board, which were also the early days of the Web: people were still used to thinking in terms of verbal conversations, where you couldn’t reach back and pull up what someone had said twenty minutes earlier in the debate. So it sometimes caught people off guard when you’d say, “no, that’s not what you were saying earlier in this thread,” and quote their post. But in 2019?? Very weird. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/357 "2019-11-25T18:56:31Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Weird, isn’t it? I could understand it somewhat in the early days of this board, which were also the early days of the Web: people were still used to thinking in terms of verbal conversations, where you couldn’t reach back and pull up what someone had said twenty minutes earlier in the debate. So it sometimes caught people off guard when you’d say, “no, that’s not what you were saying earlier in this thread,” and quote their post. > > But in 2019?? Very weird. “…in 2019?? Yup” Fixed that for ya. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/358 "2019-11-25T18:57:48Z")
I mean, it’s 2019 and TPTB still haven’t cottoned on to the concept of a troll, so… ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/359 "2019-11-25T19:00:51Z")
This is going to sound really simplistic and I don’t mean for it to. I hope it is a signpost for betterment. Women hold up half the sky. And we should act accordingly. I cannot redress what has gone before. But we can strive to do better going forward. Jenny your humble TubaDiva Administrator ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/360 "2019-11-25T19:04:59Z")
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