# Misogyny, victim-blaming, and the board culture (yet again) **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [November 15, 2019, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504 "2019-11-15T19:37:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/41 "2019-11-16T01:11:01Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > Oh boy, a bunch of men explaining to each other what’s misogyny and what isn’t. So precious, so rare, so welcome in a world that just doesn’t have enough of it. Hooray. What do you recommend I do? ETA: Start a thread called what is misogyny? I already have a thread about sexual objectification but as far as I can tell all of the responses are from men. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/42 "2019-11-16T01:13:12Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Wine Mom has entered the chat I wonder why so women post here, nowadays? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/43 "2019-11-16T03:04:16Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I wonder why so women post here, nowadays? Yes, why not spend more time in a place where a mod can twist reality in order to excuse posts so creepy they make your skin crawl from a poster who insists that any criticism can’t be of the posts but must be personal animosity? How many more times, Bone? How many more times? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/44 "2019-11-16T03:57:32Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Yes, why not spend more time in a place where a mod can twist reality in order to excuse posts so creepy they make your skin crawl from a poster who insists that any criticism can’t be of the posts but must be personal animosity? > > How many more times, Bone? How many more times? I have no idea what you’re going on about. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/45 "2019-11-16T04:43:13Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Yes, why not spend more time in a place where a mod can twist reality in order to excuse posts so creepy they make your skin crawl from a poster who insists that any criticism can’t be of the posts but must be personal animosity? > > How many more times, Bone? How many more times? I have no idea what you’re going on about. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/46 "2019-11-16T05:02:23Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Yes, why not spend more time in a place where a mod can twist reality in order to excuse posts so creepy they make your skin crawl from a poster who insists that any criticism can’t be of the posts but must be personal animosity? > > How many more times, Bone? How many more times? Link? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/47 "2019-11-16T05:08:03Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > Oh boy, a bunch of men explaining to each other what’s misogyny and what isn’t. So precious, so rare, so welcome in a world that just doesn’t have enough of it. Hooray. Would you rather these men _not_ discuss the issue? The thread was not started for or limited to exclusive participation of men. I’ve already seen a few female posters make a handful of posts in this thread and there are simply more male posters here than female. Your obvious disdain for this conversation on its face seems misplaced. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/48 "2019-11-16T05:08:53Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I have no idea what you’re going on about. Posts #9 and #20. They are so far removed from the reality that most posters in this thread see that we can only wonder how it is possible to view such distant dimensions. But they are consistent with the many other times you have insisted here in ATMB that the reality we are taking umbrage against simply doesn’t exist. The result is yet another uprising concerning the same issues from the same posters. Isn’t it far past time to consider the possibility that our vision has some validity? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/49 "2019-11-16T05:54:28Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Posts #9 and #20. > > They are so far removed from the reality that most posters in this thread see that we can only wonder how it is possible to view such distant dimensions. But they are consistent with the many other times you have insisted here in ATMB that the reality we are taking umbrage against simply doesn’t exist. > > The result is yet another uprising concerning the same issues from the same posters. Isn’t it far past time to consider the possibility that our vision has some validity? Oh I don’t deny that you and others may believe a certain thing. I simply don’t share your beliefs. iiandyiiii asked a question, both via PM and in this thread. I responded, though it seems you don’t like the response. Of course, there’s no actual reason given by you so I can’t address specifics. But yeah sure, every time you disagree with something, you’re welcome to comfort yourself with the knowing assuredness that your truth is _the truth_ and ask, how many more times?!? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/50 "2019-11-16T08:37:00Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > _By pointing out he was a rapist._ Saying that ANYTHING – political factors, “death threats”, whatever – is so important that it should overwrite a woman’s right to accuse her rapist is absolutely misogynistic, and exactly what is objectionable with HD’s initial post. I agree with this post. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/51 "2019-11-16T10:20:42Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’d still like to hear from the remaining women (woman?) among the staff, and I hope they/she will chime in. I read it just like you do, iiandyiiii. And I’m not surprised that the mod staff doesn’t. I’m not on staff, of course, and what I think doesn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/52 "2019-11-16T10:41:39Z")
**Moderator Warning** > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Wine Mom has entered the chat Since “Wine Mom” in this context is clearly derogatory, this is an official warning for personal insults outside of the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/53 "2019-11-16T12:05:30Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Oh I don’t deny that you and others may believe a certain thing. I simply don’t share your beliefs. iiandyiiii asked a question, both via PM and in this thread. I responded, though it seems you don’t like the response. Of course, there’s no actual reason given by you so I can’t address specifics. But yeah sure, every time you disagree with something, you’re welcome to comfort yourself with the knowing assuredness that your truth is _the truth_ and ask, how many more times?!? If women Dopers see this as I do, as so far the ones who’ve responded seem to, would that sway you that the post in question might, in fact, fit into that past pattern of misogyny and creepiness that contributes to a less welcoming atmosphere for women and especially survivors? ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/54 "2019-11-16T16:14:21Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Oh I don’t deny that you and others may believe a certain thing. I simply don’t share your beliefs. iiandyiiii asked a question, both via PM and in this thread. I responded, though it seems you don’t like the response. Of course, there’s no actual reason given by you so I can’t address specifics. But yeah sure, every time you disagree with something, you’re welcome to comfort yourself with the knowing assuredness that your truth is _the truth_ and ask, how many more times?!? But several people have given you the actual reason. HD blames Ford for death threats, implicitly prioritizing his right to not be harassed over her right to accuse her rapist. This “'I’m just pointing out cause and effect” BS is standard procedure for excusing victim blaming - if the intent wasn’t to place blame, then why say it? You keep framing the Kavenaugh hearings as a political disagreement, but to women who have been raped, it was a lot more than that. Implying that a woman should have kept quiet about her rape because it might impact her rapist’s life is obviously misogynist. This is not about “things that are critical of people who happen to be women.” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/55 "2019-11-16T17:33:30Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > But yeah sure, every time you disagree with something, you’re welcome to comfort yourself with the knowing assuredness that your truth is _the truth_ and ask, how many more times?!? My truth is not \*my \*truth. It is a truth expressed by the vast majority of those responding, including, as far as I can see, every single woman. Your opposition is not me and has no personal animus. Large numbers of posters see your “beliefs” as flatly wrong, even offensive. We are trying to persuade you to change your mind. In a larger sense, we are trying to persuade the mods as a group to override your beliefs. Changing a call by an individual mod happens frequently, and is a core responsibility of the mod loop if a decision is wrong. I’m sure you don’t like this. But the outrage keeps happening, perhaps accelerating, for a reason. The board has already made one large change to what is allowable behavior. Enforcement of **what already is in the rules** is what we ask for. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/56 "2019-11-16T21:42:11Z")
If the outrage about misogyny lessens and eventually stops, y’all best be sure it isn’t because all who were outraged have left. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/57 "2019-11-16T21:52:48Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If the outrage about misogyny lessens and eventually stops, y’all best be sure it isn’t because all who were outraged have left. Could you explain what you mean here? I’m not following. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/58 "2019-11-16T21:54:28Z")
Either the misogyny will lessen, or all those who have a reason to complain will leave. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/59 "2019-11-16T22:04:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Either the misogyny will lessen, or all those who have a reason to complain will leave. Ahh, that makes sense. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504/60 "2019-11-16T23:15:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If women Dopers see this as I do, as so far the ones who’ve responded seem to, would that sway you that the post in question might, in fact, fit into that past pattern of misogyny and creepiness that contributes to a less welcoming atmosphere for women and especially survivors? The phrasing being so complex really indicates to me that this is a matter of construing something just so. The simple answer is no. I’m quite comfortable with my assessment. I understand the point you’re trying to make and I disagree. > [@TroutMan](#): > > But several people have given you the actual reason. HD blames Ford for death threats, implicitly prioritizing his right to not be harassed over her right to accuse her rapist. This “'I’m just pointing out cause and effect” BS is standard procedure for excusing victim blaming - if the intent wasn’t to place blame, then why say it? > > You keep framing the Kavenaugh hearings as a political disagreement, but to women who have been raped, it was a lot more than that. Implying that a woman should have kept quiet about her rape because it might impact her rapist’s life is obviously misogynist. This is not about “things that are critical of people who happen to be women.” HD doesn’t blame Ford for death threats - Not in the sense that I think most people understand the usage of the word “blame”. There isn’t implicit prioritization of his right to not be harassed over her right to accuse her (not even) alleged rapist. There is no implication that a woman should have kept quiet about her rape because it might impact her rapist’s life. I don’t concur with most of your assertions here, so obviously I wouldn’t agree with the conclusion. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I’m sure you don’t like this. But the outrage keeps happening, perhaps accelerating, for a reason. The board has already made one large change to what is allowable behavior. Enforcement of **what already is in the rules** is what we ask for. This is pretty low on my list of priorities actually. Like or dislike doesn’t really come into play since I’m quite comfortable with disagreement. Today, I had a kids sporting event, I volunteered to do maintenance at the school, I took a walk in the open space near my house, and had a few calls for other things. Basically, because I’m comfortable with my position, this doesn’t even rate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-victim-blaming-and-the-board-culture-yet-again/843504.md?page=4)