I don’t think the mention of his name matters one way or the other. iiandyiii seems to think so, at least enough to raise it as an issue, so perhaps your question would be best directed at him.
I think it’s one perfectly valid way to clarify who I’m speaking about. As I’ve said elsewhere, I find the collective fiction regarding his identity, which so many Dopers seem keen to participate in, to be laughably absurd.
We’re respecting something here that you clearly don’t. It’s not surprising that you should find that absurd.
This is absurd. Reporting a crime is not a political process. Reporting a crime is about the victim. It’s about getting justice.
Sure, if she was lying, you could argue that her report was “designed to serve to answer one question - should the nominee be confirmed.” But you leave open the idea that she’s telling the truth. And, if she is telling the truth, the reason to report sexual misconduct is that it is sexual assault–and wrong.
Ford’s only actions were to report on sexual assault, and then to come forward when those accusations became public. To argue that she did this "to answer one question–should the nominee be confirmed–is to deny the importance of sexual assault allegations and the investigation of them.
It is perfectly possible to remove the politics entirely from this situation. Betty and John work for the same company. Betty privately reports to HR that John sexually assaulted her. John is up for a promotion. Betty’s report becomes public, and, to avoid other people being attacked for it, Betty admits it was her. Betty received death threats over this. John’s family receives death threats from people who believe Betty.
McCoy comes around and says that Betty entered office politics with her actions. He argues that, whether or not she is tellibg the truth, her actions are among those where every single part is designed to answer one question–should John be promoted.
J. Little comes around and says “This is absurd. If Betty was sexually assaulted, then Betty’s reason for reporting is obviously that she was sexually assaulted. To argue she only did it to stop John from being promoted is to assume that Betty is lying.”
Change the names and make it about the US and the Supreme Court, and you have the same situation as with Ford and Kavenaugh (and you and me). It clearly is not about politics. It’s about arguing against the idea that reporting rape is solely about whether or not the accused gets a particular job.
But it *was *a political process. If Ford wanted justice, why didn’t she come forward anytime over the 148 seasons between when the alleged event happened and when Kavanaugh was being nominated for Supreme Court Justice.
The timing is an indisputed, documented fact. Ford didn’t wait 37 years to tell her story because suddenly it was the time for justice. She told her story with the explicit intention of preventing Kavanaugh from becoming a member of the Supreme Court.
So if Ford’s timing in coming forwards was explicitly intended to harm Kavanaugh, who is to say her story isn’t embellished or misremembered, even very slightly.
Consider this. What if one critical detail she remembers, 37 years later - that he was covering her mouth to prevent her from calling out - what if it didn’t quite happen like that?
What if she forgot making consensual advances to Kavanaugh, something you would reasonably expect a teenage girl to do when in the presence of a high status male? And then he pushed her onto the bed, she said no, they didn’t have sex, and it’s attempted mating encounter number 1 trillion and 1 for the human species, much less primates.
This, by the way, is mostly consistent with her story. She just remembers for a moment thinking she was about to be raped, but didn’t tell anyone at the party or anyone else for years after the fact that she felt her boundaries had been violated.
So the fact that the story happens to be completely damning - there is no detail that possibly establishes why Kavanaugh might have thought she wanted to do stuff upstairs - and it happens to come out just when it matters - is in fact **strong evidence **of Ford’s intentions.
I’ve been scammed a few times, and the key red flag is that the timing is always super suspicious. Someone always needs money before 10pm tonight, they are totally desperate and going to be homeless if they don’t get it, yet they seem to have plenty of stuff and are attractive. They never have any documentation for this supposed upcoming expense, and other facts don’t quite line up.
You may not think it matters, but you are aware that such is a political position. You are also aware that it is something that other posters are angry with you about, and would upset them.
You also have a history on this board of posting things with the intent of riling people up. You even recently got suspended for doing so. You have also shown no contrition for these acts.
Which is more likely–you just didn’t care and thus didn’t think of how what you said might offend, or that you deliberately chose an action that you knew would upset people, when it was unnecessary to the conversation?
You are clearly posting with the intent to needle people, to try and get them upset. That is supposed to be against the rules here.
Because, as has been the point of #MeToo for the whole time, women who came out about sexual assault tended to be harmed by it, and thus only recently have felt safe enough to do so.
The idea that someone could possibly forget whether they consented to a sexual action absurd and offensive. You are stating something that is utterly impossible as a reason you don’t believe a rape accusation.
This idea that the accuser must have forgotten they consented is a form of rape apology. It is an absurd idea that people came up with so that they could ignore rape accusations.
Just like claiming that a rape accusation must be political, even if it actually happened.
Yeah, but it *wasn’t *a rape. It was a bit of drunken tomfoolery in the 80s among teenagers. She says from her perspective it *felt *like it was about to be a rape, then a friend comes in and jumps on the bed. Sort of like…teenagers messing around.
From the scenario described, what is more probable:
Kavanaugh thought, in his inebriated mind, that this girl might be in to him and he tries to make out with her
Kavanaugh, in his inebriated mind, put his fingers together and decided that today was the day he was going to rape a girl. So he intentionally decided to force himself on her. Except, whoops, he forget to lock the door and he choose a party with lots of other people around who would be witnesses!
The second theory is not credible. People sit there and attack Ford all day but forget that her own story doesn’t establish mens rea!
Wow. So now we’ve moved on to maybe she made advances to him, almost literally asking for it, and it was all a bit of drunken tomfoolery.
Did you see the way she was dressed, though?
For the tonally impared, that was sarcasm.
You know, I’m sick of explaining to people like you why victims don’t come forward sooner. I’m sick of explaining to those who dismiss reports of assault as having ulterior motives just why victims don’t talk about what happened sooner. I’ve done so over and over again on these boards and get ignored because what do I know? I’m just someone who’s been through violent sexual assault. As another poster said, my experiences and insights don’t count because I was assaulted.
You don’t understand the first thing about timing and survivors of sexual assault, and I’m pretty sure you don’t want to know. We’re the inconvenient truth you don’t want to acknowledge.
This theory is consistent with the evidence and testimony given.
Also, again, HD is correct. Ford attacked kavanaugh with the intention of blocking the nomination. She intended for him to be denied the court seat and to be ostracized. Most likely elements of her story were true but any details that would have made kavanaugh not look as bad are suspiciously missing.
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
You know, like one does. Then forget it completely. Also, like one does.
The moderators should be ashamed of themselves.
First, for letting the original blatantly misogynistic post stay without a warning.
Second, for creating a forum tone that makes SamuelA think this is his safe space and saying, “Hold my beer”.
But finally, and mostly, for being so contemptuous and resistant to listening to those most affected.
This is disgusting.
Yeah, that’s what alcohol does to people. It makes them lose their judgment. It made Kavanaugh decide he could get away with rape. It also caused him to forget to lock the door and do it at a party. When you have enough to drink, you don’t care about about the consequences. It’s like drinking and driving. Both actions hurt people.
Then, after totally getting away with it, he decided to sin no more. Well, maybe a few more times early in college.
Really sounds like bad man, that bad man who was never caught and stopped committing crimes for the next 35 years.
Ok, so high school and college - How many accusers would have to come forward before you concede that maybe, just maybe, he is a bad man? What’s the magic number before you accept maybe he really did commit sexual assault?
It only takes once for it to be a crime.
If people get upset that I’m repeating a well-publicized name, I’d politely suggest the problem is with them, not me. People post stuff here all the time that they know will upset me. I get over it. They can too.
I don’t think you’re in any position to judge my intent. You’ve misjudged it here. And I think you’ve misrepresented the reason for my suspension as well.
Once again, you’ve demonstrated that you’re bad at guessing my intent.
Sure. But it makes her story less likely to be true in the first place. Especially as the reason she told it was for political reasons.
Remember, intent matters. If kavanaugh consciously decided to commit a rape once why did he never do it again? In general the law doesn’t consider a defendant guilty of a crime if they didn’t mean to do it. (being drunk is a grey area)