# Mispronounciation of 'S' **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 23, 2017, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronounciation-of-s/802480 "2017-11-23T03:58:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2017, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronounciation-of-s/802480/21 "2017-11-24T22:13:37Z")
Does that “palatization” explanation also apply to why we use an “sh” sound for “sugar”, “sure”, “insure”, “pressure”, and such (but despite the “u” following the “s” as seems to be the pattern, not “such” :))? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2017, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronounciation-of-s/802480/22 "2017-11-24T22:34:00Z")
> [@guestchaz](#): > > The only thing I’ve noticed is a shift to pronouncing Budapest as Budapesht The reason for that being that in Hungarian, “s” is pronounced as “sh” and “sz” as “s.” So “Budapesht” more accurately reflects the local pronunciation (not that cities need be pronounced in a second language as they locally are, but this is a pretty easy adjustment. I still say it as “Budapest” most of the time in English, unless I’m around the Hungarian community or my old-time colleagues from Budapest.) ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronounciation-of-s/802480/23 "2017-11-25T03:24:05Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > The reason for that being that in Hungarian, “s” is pronounced as “sh” and “sz” as “s.” So “Budapesht” more accurately reflects the local pronunciation (not that cities need be pronounced in a second language as they locally are, but this is a pretty easy adjustment. I still say it as “Budapest” most of the time in English, unless I’m around the Hungarian community or my old-time colleagues from Budapest.) Oh I know. Its just the only instance of s pronounced as esh that I’ve noticed other than my phone’s (or maybe google’s) navigator lady insistence on saying shinder instead of center (the only s sound changed to sh by the navigation program which seems weird also). The Budapest/Budapesht thing is (it seems to me) a part of the recentish trend of reporters, actors and other media persons in the US to use “original” pronunciation instead of the US-englicized pronunciation I grew up with for a lot of familiar place and personal names from other languages. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronounciation-of-s/802480/24 "2017-11-25T19:04:01Z")
I’m amazed it falls to me all the way down in post #24 to call attention to the irony of a self-proclaimed defender of the English language joining battle under the bad faux French moniker **Lamaisonbleu**. Seems just a \*trifle \*off key, don’cha think? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronounciation-of-s/802480/25 "2017-11-25T19:16:04Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Does that “palatization” explanation also apply to why we use an “sh” sound for “sugar”, “sure”, “insure”, “pressure”, and such (but despite the “u” following the “s” as seems to be the pattern, not “such” :))? Yes, but the impetus for the “sugar”/“sure” palatization was different. That came about from the interplay between [s] and the so-called “long u” sound that’s often preceded by a y-sound (the sound that begins _Utah_ and _unite_, _viz_ IPA [ju]). Words like “such” and “summon”, having a different vowel in the first syllable, did not trigger the “s” palatization. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronounciation-of-s/802480/26 "2017-11-25T21:31:15Z")
> [@Lamaisonbleu](#): > > Incidently I still have not gotton over that horrendous concoction ‘ongoing’. First recorded use: 1877. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronounciation-of-s/802480/27 "2017-11-26T00:33:26Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Yes, but the impetus for the “sugar”/“sure” palatization was different. That came about from the interplay between [s] and the so-called “long u” sound that’s often preceded by a y-sound (the sound that begins _Utah_ and _unite_, _viz_ IPA [ju]). > > Words like “such” and “summon”, having a different vowel in the first syllable, did not trigger the “s” palatization. Similarly in words with si-vowel, like mission. Any time there’s /j/ (Y) sound the /s/ often gets palatalized. It has to do with where your tongue has to be to make the /j/ sound. And that palatalized /s/ sounds a lot like the SH sound, even though (I believe) most people make the latter with their teeth together. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronounciation-of-s/802480/28 "2017-11-26T16:03:23Z")
Shtreet, yes. Shtyle? Never heard someone say shtyle. Have you links to any examples? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronounciation-of-s/802480/29 "2017-11-26T16:14:46Z")
Thank you for the explanations **bordelond** and **BigT**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronounciation-of-s/802480.md?page=1)