# Mispronunciation/ Poor grammar that bothers you **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 7, 2005, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronunciation-poor-grammar-that-bothers-you/311475 "2005-07-07T17:02:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronunciation-poor-grammar-that-bothers-you/311475/261 "2013-08-09T00:34:58Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > These seem to be using a broader perspective than their own products. The salsa one, for instance, is talking of a broad scale of pepperiness/hotness that one might associate with food in general, or salsas as a whole. They may only market a “medium” variety, but the expectation is that you understand _medium_ compares against a more general case of _mild_ = no heat and \*hot \*= very spicy. It seems reasonable. Yeah, but until I actually went to the web site to see if “mild” and “hot” varieties even existed, I was trying to hunt down the “hot” version every time I went to a different store. I thought my regular store just didn’t carry the other varieties. The “medium” has no heat whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronunciation-poor-grammar-that-bothers-you/311475/262 "2013-08-09T03:32:35Z")
Here’s one you hear in Thailand: “Freshie.” The Thais love this “word.” A first-year college student is never a freshman but a freshie. They love the word so much that several local consumer products are made under the Freshie brand. They look at me like I’m from Mars if I tell them that’s not a word and that it sounds obnoxious. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronunciation-poor-grammar-that-bothers-you/311475/263 "2013-08-09T04:08:47Z")
They get half a point. It is a word but it’s also kind of obnoxious. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronunciation-poor-grammar-that-bothers-you/311475/264 "2013-08-09T04:12:56Z")
“Freshie” is not a word, dadgummit! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronunciation-poor-grammar-that-bothers-you/311475/265 "2013-08-09T04:17:22Z")
Why not? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronunciation-poor-grammar-that-bothers-you/311475/266 "2013-08-09T04:23:01Z")
Because it’s not!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronunciation-poor-grammar-that-bothers-you/311475/267 "2013-08-09T05:25:49Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > “Freshie” is not a word, dadgummit! :mad: “Mom, I’ve got that not-so-freshie feeling.” ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronunciation-poor-grammar-that-bothers-you/311475/268 "2013-08-09T07:44:37Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Oh, just that there are general grammatical “rules” that we use natively that we don’t even notice or might not be formally taught in school, and when you teach EFL you learn some of them. Like I don’t recall ever being taught how to create comparatives and superlatives in English, but there is a general rule governing how they’re made based on syllable count and the structure of the word. Similarly, I don’t remember ever learning about all those conditional forms in my English lessons, but I natively use them, and when you’re teaching English, you learn there’s four basic conditional forms that follow a certain and convey different meanings. The vast majority of grammar that people “know”–that they use competently–isn’t taught to them formally. I don’t think it’s ever been “measured,” or that it ever really could be measured, but I’d say that about 90% of the grammar that people use correctly isn’t “learned” through instruction. ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronunciation-poor-grammar-that-bothers-you/311475/269 "2013-08-09T08:21:05Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > You know, thinking about it, I realize Lewis Carol is probably not a good source for determining what is acceptable. 😉 A bit of annoying nitpicking / nerdery / pedantry on my part, here, on behalf of a compatriot: please, he’s Lewis _Carroll_ (double r, double l). > [@Irishman](#): > > I read _Cat’s Cradle_ not too long ago, and that one stood out to me as strange. Even bood’n or bod’n doesn’t make sense to me. The mouth noise for car engine noises I’ve always used and heard is “vroom” or possibly “vrum”. I don’t know; kids, individually, can come out with the weirdest and most random stuff. I’d feel that this is an area where nothing’s totally ruled out. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronunciation-poor-grammar-that-bothers-you/311475/270 "2013-08-09T12:33:57Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > [The Free Dictionary](http://www.thefreedictionary.com/orientate). > > [Dictionary.com](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/orientate). > > [Merriam-Webster](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/orientate). > > [Oxford Dictionaries](http://oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/orientate). > > [Cambridge Dictionaries](http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/british/orientate_2). Ah well, thanks – ignorance fought. So this is a perfect example of what really bugs me, which is when things that are wrong become so common that they’re adopted as correct, and the language suffers as a result. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronunciation-poor-grammar-that-bothers-you/311475/271 "2013-08-09T13:51:56Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > The vast majority of grammar that people “know”–that they use competently–isn’t taught to them formally. Yes, that’s exactly right and part of my apparently badly made point. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronunciation-poor-grammar-that-bothers-you/311475/272 "2013-08-09T14:44:55Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Oh, just that there are general grammatical “rules” that we use natively that we don’t even notice or might not be formally taught in school, and when you teach EFL you learn some of them. I understand that part. Much of what we learn comes through picking up via usage, not formal instruction. That’s why dialects persist. > [@](#): > > Like I don’t recall ever being taught how to create comparatives and superlatives in English, but there is a general rule governing how they’re made based on syllable count and the structure of the word. I actually do vaguely recall going over that in school, talking about er and est, more and most, etc. It’s just the kind of thing that gets relegated to unconscious practice. > [@](#): > > Similarly, I don’t remember ever learning about all those conditional forms in my English lessons, but I natively use them, and when you’re teaching English, you learn there’s four basic conditional forms that follow a certain and convey different meanings. This is the part that I don’t understand what you are saying. “Conditional forms”? Convey different meanings? > [@vontsira](#): > > A bit of annoying nitpicking / nerdery / pedantry on my part, here, on behalf of a compatriot: please, he’s Lewis _Carroll_ (double r, double l). :smack: I was copying for the response, but should have caught that. > [@](#): > > I don’t know; kids, individually, can come out with the weirdest and most random stuff. I’d feel that this is an area where nothing’s totally ruled out. Just shows that onomatopoeia isn’t universal. For me, “burton burton burton” was so weird I almost couldn’t figure out what was meant. I figured it was engine noises, but for the life of me was not getting that from what I expect car noises to be. Thinking about it now, “putt putt putt” or “putter putter putter” start to sound kinda similar. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronunciation-poor-grammar-that-bothers-you/311475/273 "2013-08-09T14:53:46Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > This is the part that I don’t understand what you are saying. “Conditional forms”? Convey different meanings? If I have the money, I will buy the game vs. If I had the money, I would buy the game vs If I had had the money, I would have bought the game. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronunciation-poor-grammar-that-bothers-you/311475/274 "2013-08-09T15:23:55Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > This is the part that I don’t understand what you are saying. “Conditional forms”? Convey different meanings? **Inner Stickler** ’s got the three basic conditionals , but you can [read about it here.](http://www.usingenglish.com/articles/english-conditionals-an-introduction.html) The “zero conditional” equivalent of Inner Stickler’s money example might be: If I have money, I save some of it. It’s used in cases where if condition A is met, then B is true as a scientific fact or general truth. Often, the difference in meaning between the zero and first conditional can be subtle. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronunciation-poor-grammar-that-bothers-you/311475/275 "2013-08-09T18:45:16Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > If native speakers run roughshod over it, that’s prima facie evidence that it’s not a ‘useful’ rule. Eh, not necessarily. I’ve witnessed many conversations between two people, using what I consider poor usage…mumbling, slangy, incomplete sentences, with elisions, oblique references, poor pronoun antecedents, and “understood” omissions…that go horribly awry. As a witness, _I_ understand what the two parties a are getting at, but THEY diverge into farcical misunderstanding or screaming argument even though their position is the same – BECAUSE their poor usage impedes each others’ understanding. I see this on many, many, many occasions. Some people may go through their entire lives being misunderstood most of the time. Certainly, poor grammar/usage is often an impediment to the user _even when speaking only to his or her own social peers with similarly poor usage_. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronunciation-poor-grammar-that-bothers-you/311475/276 "2013-08-09T18:49:45Z")
Are you contending that people who converse in impeccable SE will never misunderstand each other? ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronunciation-poor-grammar-that-bothers-you/311475/277 "2013-08-09T18:58:48Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > **Inner Stickler** ’s got the three basic conditionals , but you can [read about it here.](http://www.usingenglish.com/articles/english-conditionals-an-introduction.html) Thanks to you and Stickler. I didn’t know about these. They’re a good example of rules we follow without realizing it. IMHO, the least intuitive of them is the second: Probability / Conditional / Example / Time Unlikely / second conditional / If I won the lottery, I would retire. / future ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronunciation-poor-grammar-that-bothers-you/311475/278 "2013-08-09T18:59:37Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Are you contending that people who converse in impeccable SE will never misunderstand each other? If this is really what you think he said, it looks like the answer is “no.” ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronunciation-poor-grammar-that-bothers-you/311475/279 "2013-08-09T19:01:35Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Are you contending that people who converse in impeccable SE will never misunderstand each other? Less frequently. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mispronunciation-poor-grammar-that-bothers-you/311475/280 "2013-08-09T19:06:29Z")
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