# Miss China: Tranny? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 11, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-china-tranny/506111 "2009-08-11T21:23:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-china-tranny/506111/41 "2009-08-13T04:17:11Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > No, it **is not** at all analogous to Oriental. Oriental as a descriptor of persons is offensive because it is based on an outmoded worldview. But Oriental is not and has never been a pejorative. > > Tranny, on the other hand, is a slur. It is nothing _but_ a slur. It is transphobic and given that its use is almost universally against women, misogynistic to boot. > > The equivalent of a thread entitled “MIss China: Tranny?” would be “Miss Nigeria: Nigger?” It is absolutely indefensible. Frankly, if Miss Nigeria were _not_ black, I’d be kind of pissed off. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-china-tranny/506111/42 "2009-08-13T04:18:41Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > On what basis? Is there a rule that Miss Whatever has to be biologically female? I don’t know if there’s an official rule. If not, there’s certainly an unofficial one, at least here. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-china-tranny/506111/43 "2009-08-13T04:20:27Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > On what basis? Is there a rule that Miss Whatever has to be biologically female? [Yes](http://www.misstexasusa.com/miss-eligibility.html): > [@](#): > > [ul] > [li]Must not be married, never have been married, and never have had a marriage annulled.[/li][li]Must never have given birth to a child, can not be pregnant or be a parent. Must be of good health and moral character.[/li][li] **Must be a naturally born female** , a citizen of the United States, and at least one of the following must be true:[/li][LIST] > [li]Must now reside in their state as their permanent and primary residence for a period of at least six (6) months immediately prior to the beginning of their state pageant (although they may have attended college or University elsewhere); or[/li][li]Must have resided in their state as a full-time student at a college or university for one entire semester immediately prior to the beginning of their state pageant, and they are continuing to reside in their state as a full-time student (although they may have spent or be spending the summer in another state).[/li][/ul] > [/LIST] ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-china-tranny/506111/44 "2009-08-13T04:27:32Z")
I think I’ve heard of pageants proscribing any type of cosmetic surgery, too. Sex-change operations could conceivably fall under that. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-china-tranny/506111/45 "2009-08-13T04:31:05Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I think I’ve heard of pageants proscribing any type of cosmetic surgery, too. Sex-change operations could conceivably fall under that. Miss Universe [does not prohibit cosmetic surgery](http://www.missuniverse.com/info/faq): > [@](#): > > \*\*ARE CONTESTANTS ALLOWED TO HAVE COSMETIC SURGERY? \*\* > Although contestants are discouraged from altering their own natural beauty, no restrictions are placed on cosmetic surgery; it is impossible to enforce such a rule. In fact, since 1990 the organization has allowed padding in an effort to discourage participants from permanently altering their bodies for the competition. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-china-tranny/506111/46 "2009-08-13T14:02:00Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I think I’ve heard of pageants proscribing any type of cosmetic surgery, too. Well, then Miss Venezuela would always be disqualified. (Not referencing the current Miss Venezuela. I’ve heard that Venezuela is big into beauty pageants and cosmetic surgery.) I like that they allow padding, especially if they’re going to allow plastic surgery. What difference does it really make if the fake tits are because of padding that’s stuffed under the skin or between the skin and the bra? Doing the latter is a much better choice for the vast majority of women. Anyway, there is nothing inherently wrong with getting cosmetic surgery anyway. And where would you draw the line? Getting lipo and ass implants are cosmetic surgery. So is getting a mole removed. ---
**Author:** ![filling\_pages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9bd4f/32.png) [@filling\_pages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filling_pages)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-china-tranny/506111/47 "2009-08-13T17:14:48Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > I’d just like to state that I’m going to continue to use the term “tranny.” Nice. Do you commonly stick with slurs for marginalized groups? ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-china-tranny/506111/48 "2009-08-13T18:02:03Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > Tranny, on the other hand, is a slur. It is nothing _but_ a slur. False. Cite: Thread title. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-china-tranny/506111/49 "2009-08-13T18:05:42Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > False. Cite: Thread title. How is that a cite? A lot of people here have mentioned that they find it offensive and that they know people who find it so. If someone started a thread title with “Fag” or “Nigger” in the title, would that make those words suddenly acceptable? ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-china-tranny/506111/50 "2009-08-13T18:17:03Z")
> [@filling\_pages](#): > > Nice. Do you commonly stick with slurs for marginalized groups? I’ll wait for an actual tranny to inform me that it’s a slur, random messageboard nobody. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-china-tranny/506111/51 "2009-08-13T18:27:11Z")
Thinking about this further, considering tranny to be a slur makes no sense at all. It’s just an abbreviated version of “transsexual.” It’s not like I’m saying “fag” instead of “faggot” or “nig” instead of “nigger.” Of course, I generally don’t encounter any trannies in my day-to-day existence, so it doesn’t matter what I call them because they’ll never hear it. But if one does hear me use the term, and it truly is offensive, then I’m sure they will let me know. In their huskiest voice. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-china-tranny/506111/52 "2009-08-13T18:30:02Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Thinking about this further, considering tranny to be a slur makes no sense at all. It’s just an abbreviated version of “transsexual.” It’s not like I’m saying “fag” instead of “faggot” or “nig” instead of “nigger.” Do things necessarily have to follow a logical order? Chinaman is considered offensive even though it’s just a Chinese man. The word “Jew” isn’t offensive inherently but if you use it as an adjective, it sure as hell becomes offensive. Anyway, didn’t **Eve** say at one point that she found it offensive? I’d try to do a search but you can’t search for words that short… ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-china-tranny/506111/53 "2009-08-13T18:33:20Z")
Who is **Eve**? Is she a transsexual? Does she speak for all transsexuals? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-china-tranny/506111/54 "2009-08-13T18:50:20Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Who is **Eve**? Is she a transsexual? Does she speak for all transsexuals? Not for all the transsexuals in the world, no. No one person speaks for everyone. She was a transgendered woman who was pretty well respected and liked on the Dope, that’s all. I could be remembering wrong, but I just feel like I recall a thread where she said something about how she disliked the term. If any other Dopers remember anything she said about it, feel free to pipe in (or conversely, you can point out that I’m wrong and that **Eve** lost no opportunity to refer to herself as our resident Tranny Granny at all times). If people who are transgendered are saying they don’t like the term, I don’t see why it’s such a good thing to use it. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-china-tranny/506111/55 "2009-08-13T18:56:03Z")
It’s definitely less formal, I’ll give you that. But this is just a messageboard. I don’t see any reason to get worked up over usage of informal terms on a messageboard. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-china-tranny/506111/56 "2009-08-13T18:59:03Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Thinking about this further, considering tranny to be a slur makes no sense at all. It’s just an abbreviated version of “transsexual.” It’s not like I’m saying “fag” instead of “faggot” or “nig” instead of “nigger.” “Nigger” is a diminutive form of “Negro,” just as “tranny” is a diminutive form of “transgendered.” Do you really want me to drag one of my trans friends into this discussion to get a quote that says yes, you are being an bigoted asshole? ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-china-tranny/506111/57 "2009-08-13T19:06:32Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > “Nigger” is a diminutive form of “Negro,” just as “tranny” is a diminutive form of “transgendered.” How can the longer word be the diminutive of the shorter? > [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Do you really want me to drag one of my trans friends into this discussion to get a quote that says yes, you are being an bigoted asshole? I couldn’t begin to care what you or your tranny friend think. ---
**Author:** ![filling\_pages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9bd4f/32.png) [@filling\_pages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filling_pages)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-china-tranny/506111/58 "2009-08-13T19:28:51Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > I couldn’t begin to care what you or your tranny friend think. So what did you mean by “I’ll wait for an actual tranny to inform me that it’s a slur, random messageboard nobody,”? ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-china-tranny/506111/59 "2009-08-13T19:38:12Z")
> [@filling\_pages](#): > > So what did you mean by “I’ll wait for an actual tranny to inform me that it’s a slur, random messageboard nobody,”? In real life, if I happen to be speaking with one, not on an internet messageboard with a bunch of people I can’t see quibbling over inconsequential bullshit. The point is, I don’t care if some name-on-a-screen’s hypothetical (maybe they exist; maybe I’m really an underwear model) transsexual friend is offended. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-china-tranny/506111/60 "2009-08-13T19:51:07Z")
Apparently what \*\*MODALIZE \*\*means is, “I’m too much of a coward to admit to using bigoted language, so I’m just going to stuff my ears and scream, ‘LA LA LA LA LA LA.’” Because if he actually knew any trans people, he’d already be aware that “tranny” is offensive, so he’ll never actually talk to someone about it. > [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > How can the longer word be the diminutive of the shorter? Are you confused by how “Maggie” is a diminutive form of “Megan,” too? I guess you’ve never studied any foreign languages, either–in Japanese, for example, the diminutive of a person’s name is formed by adding -chan to the end, which is obviously longer than their given name. Apparently you’re incapable of operating a dictionary, so I’ll quote for you. [[QUOTE=m-w.com](http://QUOTE=m-w.com)] \*\*1 : \*\*indicating small size and sometimes the state or quality of being familiarly known, lovable, pitiable, or contemptible —used of affixes (as -ette, -kin, -ling) and of words formed with them (as kitchenette, manikin, duckling), of clipped forms (as Jim), and of altered forms (as Peggy) — compare augmentative [/QUOTE] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-china-tranny/506111.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-china-tranny/506111.md?page=4)