# Miss Lucille Ball **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 27, 2021, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-lucille-ball/953332 "2021-10-27T19:27:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-lucille-ball/953332/1 "2021-10-27T19:27:18Z")
I always thought it odd that a middle aged married entertainer would insist upon being called “Miss”, but that was how she was introduced. Was it an age denial thing? I can’t think of any other aged “misses” from old tv. eta: “Miss” Judy Garland probably happened. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-lucille-ball/953332/2 "2021-10-27T19:47:09Z")
I’m thinking it’s just acknowledging that Lucy did not take either Desi Arnaz’s or Gary Morton’s last name. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-lucille-ball/953332/3 "2021-10-27T19:48:35Z")
I’m thinking the same thing; such a choice might have, later on, led to her instead being referred to as “Ms. Ball,” but that’s a title that didn’t become widely used in the U.S. until the '60s or '70s, and by then, she had been “Miss Ball” for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-lucille-ball/953332/4 "2021-10-27T19:50:03Z")
She was divorced from Desi when she used it in her credits. Miss Barbara Stanwyck was divorced from Robert Taylor when she used it in the credits for The Big Valley. It was a grande dame of the theater kind of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-lucille-ball/953332/5 "2021-10-27T20:18:07Z")
Married or not, a stage name is a stage name and if the user of that name wants it to include “Miss” then why not? It was used as an address of respect. This was very, very common up until maybe the 70’s or 80’s. ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-lucille-ball/953332/6 "2021-10-27T21:57:23Z")
In my limited experience backstage of a few TV and theater productions, every actress big enough to have her name on her dressing room door got a door sign labeled “Miss [Lastname].” Seems to have been an old courtesy term for all famous actresses in general regardless of age or marital status. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-lucille-ball/953332/7 "2021-10-27T21:59:55Z")
Ayn Rand was always addressed as “Miss Rand,” though her actual name was Mrs. O’Connor. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-lucille-ball/953332/8 "2021-10-27T22:10:15Z")
Not that rare, if you were around long enough to be a part of the Hollywood glamor days. [![](https://dogramofonu.pl/userdata/public/gfx/23961.jpg) ](https://dogramofonu.pl/userdata/public/gfx/23961.jpg) [![](https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/10/f0/ce/f7/joan-crawford-welcome.jpg) ](https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/10/f0/ce/f7/joan-crawford-welcome.jpg) > **[Miss Helen Hayes Vinyl 12" at Wolfgang's](https://www.wolfgangs.com/jazz-record-mart-vinyl-cds-and-dvds/miss-helen-hayes/vinyl-12/JRM04730.html)** > > Miss Helen Hayes Vinyl 12" [https://www.ebay.com/itm/164010707443](https://www.ebay.com/itm/164010707443) ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-lucille-ball/953332/9 "2021-10-27T22:14:50Z")
I feel like it was because she was successful in her own right with out the help from a husband. That’s just me speculating tho’. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-lucille-ball/953332/11 "2021-10-27T22:32:27Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > Joan Crawford showed up at the opening of a Pepsi plant? How have the mighty fallen! Not sure if I’m being whooshed, but you’re maybe missing the point of Crawford and Pepsi. Putting that aside for a moment: IIRC, Kermit introduced various guests as “The Lovely Miss Rita Moreno” or “The Lovely Miss Florence Henderson” or whatever on THE MUPPET SHOW… ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-lucille-ball/953332/12 "2021-10-27T22:37:58Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > > [@erysichthon](#): > > > > Joan Crawford showed up at the opening of a Pepsi plant? How have the mighty fallen! > > Not sure if I’m being whooshed, but you’re maybe missing the point of Crawford and Pepsi. Yeah, I checked Wikipedia and I see that Crawford was on the Pepsi board of directors at the time, so it’s not weird that she’d do this. Ignorance fought. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-lucille-ball/953332/13 "2021-10-27T22:39:38Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > It was a grande dame of the theater kind of thing. Pretty much, yes. And few deserved the _grande dame_ treatment more than Lucy. She was a Hollywood legend, even though most of her screen time was television rather than movies, and she was a comic genius. She supposedly was also the real brains behind the success of Desilu and the initial decision to sacrifice their personal salaries to have _I Love Lucy_ filmed rather than broadcast live and kinescoped, provided she and Desi retained syndication rights. This was long before anyone had even heard the word “syndication”, and CBS laughed at the idea that anyone would ever want to watch a sitcom more than once. That syndication factor alone made Lucy and Desi very rich. Trivia: We’ve all seen _I Love Lucy_ reruns, and we’re all familiar with the “heart on satin” opening theme. That was never in the originals, which were always opened with an advertising-centered intro focusing on the sponsor. The “heart on satin” opening was developed exclusively for the later syndication. ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-lucille-ball/953332/14 "2021-10-27T22:52:12Z")
Just as a Desilu aside, one of my favorite stories is that Paramount, which was the larger studio next door to the Desilu lot, paid a lot of money to acquire the Desilu catalog and stable of actors. The paid a lot because they wanted _I Love Lucy_ and _The Lucy Show_. But they got a couple of other properties, including _Mission: Impossible_. They also got an utterly worthless property that no one cared about. But, it turned out okay. That worthless property was called _Star Trek_. They managed to squeeze a few dollars out of it. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-lucille-ball/953332/15 "2021-10-27T22:53:23Z")
It was extremely common, if not standard, to introduce women actors as “Miss.” I hear it all the time on old time radio shows. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-lucille-ball/953332/16 "2021-10-27T23:15:54Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Was it an age denial thing? This is the part that puzzles me. What would age have to do with it? ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-lucille-ball/953332/17 "2021-10-27T23:20:57Z")
It was the standard polite phrasing of the time for any married woman using a professional name that differed from her husband’s. That would often have been actors, but not always. There would have been nothing unusual about it at all, except in the sense that most women didn’t have a separate professional name. In social contexts she might well have been Mrs. Arnaz or Mrs. Morton, but in professional contexts she was Lucille Ball, and she wasn’t Mrs. Ball, after all. So she had to be Miss Ball, because leaving the title off altogether would have been rude. Women would always be referred to politely as Miss or Mrs. unless one knew them well; and men as Mr. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-lucille-ball/953332/18 "2021-10-27T23:49:41Z")
On the old black & white _What’s My Line?_ (episodes of which are available on YouTube), host John Daly always referred to regular panelists Arlene Francis and Dorothy Kilgallen as “Miss Francis” and “Miss Kilgallen.” Like Lucille Ball, they were both married to men whose surnames were different than theirs. By contrast, when there was a female contestant, Daly would always ponderously ask them “Is it Miss or Mrs.?” ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2021, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-lucille-ball/953332/19 "2021-10-28T00:30:22Z")
[quote=“erysichthon, post:12, topic:953332, full:true”] > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > > [@erysichthon](#): > > > > > Joan Crawford showed up at the opening of a Pepsi plant? How have the mighty fallen! > > > [/quote] > > > > > > Not sure if I’m being whooshed, but you’re maybe missing the point of Crawford and Pepsi. > > Yeah, I checked Wikipedia and I see that Crawford was on the Pepsi board of directors at the time, so it’s not weird that she’d do this. Ignorance fought. And the reason she was on their board was that [her late husband](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Steele) was the CEO. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2021, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-lucille-ball/953332/20 "2021-10-28T02:05:24Z")
The NY Times kept the format as part of their house style well into the 70s. Eventually, they dropped it. When it happened, they gave Lucille Ball as the example: she would no longer be “Miss Ball” but just “Ball” (on second reference; the first would be her full name). ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2021, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-lucille-ball/953332/21 "2021-10-28T02:13:01Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The NY Times kept the format as part of their house style well into the 70s. The Times used honorifics in its style a lot longer than many other newspapers. They once famously referred to the singer Meat Load as Mr. Loaf. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-lucille-ball/953332.md?page=2)