# Miss. police: Open carry laws kept us from arresting shotgun-toting man who terrorized shoppers. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 23, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257 "2015-06-23T16:41:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/1 "2015-06-23T16:41:31Z")
> **[Miss. police: Open carry laws kept us from arresting shotgun-toting man who...](https://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-walmart-shoppers/)** > > The police chief of  Gulfport, Mississippi, expressed his frustration with his state's open carry laws after a man strolling through a Walmart Sunday night menaced shoppers by loading and racking shells into his shotgun, causing police to... > [@](#): > > The police chief of Gulfport, Mississippi, expressed his frustration with his state’s open carry laws after a man strolling through a Walmart Sunday night menaced shoppers by loading and racking shells into his shotgun, causing police to dispatch a SWAT team and evacuate the store. > > According to Police Chief Leonard Papania, he would have arrested the unidentified man and his companion if he could for stretching the city’s police forces thin while panicked Walmart employees huddled in a safe room, WMC reported. > > “If I were in a situation where I’m in the store shopping with my family and I see an individual loading a 12 gauge, and racking it, I’m not coming to the conclusion this is good,” said Papania. “While the actions of these two men are sanctioned by state laws, what they did negatively impacted our community.” > > According to police they received multiple calls about the men who had possibly done the same thing at a local Winn-Dixie, forcing police to divert officers to the Walmart to form a perimeter as the SWAT entered and searched the store. By the time police had arrived, the two men had left. So we have idiots racking shells in a Walmart and the police are (or at least think they are) powerless. The opponents of open carry laws haven’t been successful in getting these laws repealed. It may instead be the supporters who succeed at doing that. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/2 "2015-06-23T17:10:21Z")
There is apparently some disagreement about the scope of the open-carry law. [Here](http://neshobademocrat.com/Main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=297&ArticleID=29488) is a 2013 article in which a chief of police in a different city says that brandishing remains illegal. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/3 "2015-06-23T17:18:09Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > There is apparently some disagreement about the scope of the open-carry law. [Here](http://neshobademocrat.com/Main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=297&ArticleID=29488) is a 2013 article in which a chief of police in a different city says that brandishing remains illegal. That’s what I would have thought. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/4 "2015-06-23T17:33:23Z")
Every hunter, and target shooter, is allowed to open carry. How else are they supposed to shoot game, or shoot targets??? You can open carry in your home, or your business. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/5 "2015-06-23T17:37:26Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Every hunter, and target shooter, is allowed to open carry. How else are they supposed to shoot game, or shoot targets??? You can open carry in your home, or your business. What does this have to do with someone carrying a weapon in Walmart? Please, tell me. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/6 "2015-06-23T17:38:04Z")
Is there a solid definition of “brandish” under this law? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/7 "2015-06-23T17:39:34Z")
It’s a wonder some other open carry nutjob didn’t think that was a prelude to a robbery or worse and open fire on those two. It’s going to happen sooner or later. Here’s hoping that the casualties when it does are contained to the nutjobs. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/8 "2015-06-23T17:39:45Z")
I doubt that Walmart is the home or business of the men who did this. I also doubt that they were there engaged in hunting or target shooting. At least I hope they weren’t. ---
**Author:** ![AdamF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/adamf/32/6246_2.png) [@AdamF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AdamF)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/9 "2015-06-23T18:16:56Z")
Walmart being a private property, wouldn’t it be up to the owner/manager to decide if you can or cannot carry a weapon into the store? ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/10 "2015-06-23T18:21:31Z")
> [@AdamF](#): > > Walmart being a private property, wouldn’t it be up to the owner/manager to decide if you can or cannot carry a weapon into the store? That’s exactly what I would have thought, they should be able to ask anyone to leave and have them charged for trespassing if they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/11 "2015-06-23T18:21:57Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > What does this have to do with someone carrying a weapon in Walmart? Please, tell me. Perhaps this guy is a bad enough shot that he has to shoot the targets while they’re hanging on a display rack. > [@AdamF](#): > > Walmart being a private property, wouldn’t it be up to the owner/manager to decide if you can or cannot carry a weapon into the store? Makes it difficult to carry the weapon you’re buying to the cash register, or from there to the door. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/12 "2015-06-23T18:22:30Z")
> [@AdamF](#): > > Walmart being a private property, wouldn’t it be up to the owner/manager to decide if you can or cannot carry a weapon into the store? They don’t want to see headlines like “NRA Calls For Boycott of Walmart”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/13 "2015-06-23T18:28:03Z")
> [@AdamF](#): > > Walmart being a private property, wouldn’t it be up to the owner/manager to decide if you can or cannot carry a weapon into the store? Yep, Store Manager AdamF, you go right out there in your Wal-Mart Blazer and tell those two (?) guys with loaded guns that their business is no longer wanted in this store. Yeah. Me too. I tend to agree with davidm; CC laws will be done in by their adherents more than their critics. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/14 "2015-06-23T18:41:13Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > What does this have to do with someone carrying a weapon in Walmart? Please, tell me. Does this particular Walmart sell firearms and ammunition? Do they take returned firearms? Do they sell scopes, chokes, or recoil pads that mount on firearms? Does state law allow open carry? If state law allows open carry, and there is no legislative provision (law) for businesses to opt out of having firearms on their premises, it would seem to me that you could open carry in a Walmart that sells firearms. Is there a state rule or law that requires firearms to carried in a case? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/15 "2015-06-23T18:49:06Z")
Yes, state law in this case allows open carry. That’s stated in the OP. Purchasing firearms and carrying them out of the store is different from strolling through the store loading and racking shells. This behavior is just asking for trouble. Suppose some other open carry vigilante sees this guy doing this and decides that it’s necessary to take him out? And yes, I said vigilante, because at the end of the day that’s what most of these guys are playing at. They say so themselves when they talk about “good guys with guns” stopping “bad guys with guns”. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/16 "2015-06-23T18:54:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is there a solid definition of “brandish” under this law? [Mississippi code:](http://law.justia.com/codes/mississippi/2014/title-97/chapter-37/general-provisions/section-97-37-19) > [@](#): > > If any person, having or carrying any dirk, dirk-knife, sword, sword-cane, or any deadly weapon, or other weapon the carrying of which concealed is prohibited by Section 97-37-1, shall, in the presence of another person, brandish or wield the same in a threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense, or shall in any manner unlawfully use the same in any fight or quarrel My own state has a similar definition – you can do whatever with it as long as it’s not threatening, and I think the implied interpretation is that just carrying a gun around isn’t threatening. Racking a shotgun, I dunno… I guess it depends on the details. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/17 "2015-06-23T18:56:22Z")
I assume that if I had been there and pulled out my CC 9mm and shot these guys because I felt I was in imminent danger and had no duty to retreat, that I would not be prosecuted. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/18 "2015-06-23T18:58:52Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Does this particular Walmart sell firearms and ammunition? Do they take returned firearms? Do they sell scopes, chokes, or recoil pads that mount on firearms? > > Does state law allow open carry? > > If state law allows open carry, and there is no legislative provision (law) for businesses to opt out of having firearms on their premises, it would seem to me that you could open carry in a Walmart that sells firearms. > > Is there a state rule or law that requires firearms to carried in a case? None of these statements – I don’t believe they are actually questions – has anything to do with your previous post. Let me repeat: > [@](#): > > Every hunter, and target shooter, is allowed to open carry. How else are they supposed to shoot game, or shoot targets??? You can open carry in your home, or your business. What do these statements have anything to do with carrying a weapon in a Walmart? I remind you that the story pertains not just to someone who is armed in a Walmart, but someone who appears to be attempting to intimidate others with the weapon. So what does that have to do with being armed in your own house, or going hunting? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/19 "2015-06-23T19:09:30Z")
What, do you not have deer in your Wal-mart, city boy? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/20 "2015-06-23T19:14:41Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > None of these statements – I don’t believe they are actually questions – has anything to do with your previous post. Let me repeat: > > What do these statements have anything to do with carrying a weapon in a Walmart? I remind you that the story pertains not just to someone who is armed in a Walmart, but someone who appears to be attempting to intimidate others with the weapon. > > So what does that have to do with being armed in your own house, or going hunting? Questions usually end with question marks. You can make up any definitions you feel best meets your agenda. Open carry is open carry. If you want to talk about open carry, hunting, target shooting, and homes are included. YMMV. According to the article in the OP, the Police Chief would have arrested one, or both, if they had actually violated any laws. He wanted to arrest them because his officers had been dispatched to the scene. Racking shells into a shotgun, in a Walmart that sells firearms, seems like a good way to test the shotgun. Maybe there’s more to this story than has been reported, so far. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257.md?page=2)