# Miss. police: Open carry laws kept us from arresting shotgun-toting man who terrorized shoppers. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 23, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257 "2015-06-23T16:41:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/201 "2015-06-29T10:10:09Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Oh, hey, that reminds me; is it hunting season in Mississippi? > > Hm. [Nope](https://www.mdwfp.com/media/7311/hunting_seasons.pdf). So, how do those laws apply here, exactly? Wait - it’s not duck OR rabbit season? What about Elmers? Is it Elmer season? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/202 "2015-06-29T10:45:37Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > It seems to have started out as an inquiry as to whether loading and racking a shotgun while walking around a WalMart could be covered by some criminal charge such as brandishing or disturbing the peace even in an open-carry state. I would have found that to be an interesting thread. In my view, at a minimum, that conduct gives rise to reasonable, articulable suspicion of violation of laws against brandishing and would permit the police to briefly detain the actor in order to confirm or dispel their concerns. > [@](#): > > doorhinge’s position appears to be: "Every hunter, and target shooter, is allowed to open carry. How else are they supposed to shoot game, or shoot targets??? You can open carry in your home, or your business. " This, in my mind, is a complete non sequitur that should have simply been ignored by everybody else. I agree that loading and racking a shotgun in a retail store isn’t really relevant to hunting or target shooting in the sense of determining whther brandishing is an issue. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/203 "2015-06-29T12:33:50Z")
Has the nimrod who did this come forward to say anything? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/204 "2015-06-29T13:53:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Can someone summarize the specific claims being made here by each side? Danger, Will Robinson, Danger. There are countless unfathomable Thru-The-Looking-Glass rabbit holes ahead. 🙂 On a more serious note, you’re a brave man to enter this BBQ pit/Great Debate thread. It’s my position that: -The Police Chief is well aware of the laws of Gulf Port, MS, as well as those of the State of Mississippi. I believe the Chief would have arrested the Walmart shotgun toter IF the guy had violated any laws within the Chief’s jurisdiction. There’s an assumption by several posters that the Chief must be wrong but they have been unable to show why the Chief is wrong. -The media did an incredibly piss poor job of reporting the facts this story. Securing the release of the related 9-1-1 calls would certainly help establish a proper timeline. The release would also identify who panicked, and when. Did anyone call 9-1-1 from the first, or second, business that had been subjected to blatant open-carry, shotgun-toting? Did anyone at those locations care if someone at those locations was shotgun-toting in public? At what point in the timeline was the decision made to assemble the SWAT team? -Pending an actual appellate court ruling, it’s unclear if the wording of Illinois’s concealed carry law allows Illinois business owners to force recalcitrant, but otherwise fully compliant with Illinois laws, firearm carriers to leave their building solely for carrying a firearm, IF the business owner had not posted the required signage. -That it’s debatable that many of the posts in this Great Debates thread are actually an attempt to debate any point. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/205 "2015-06-29T14:08:47Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > As for me, I’m with the chief of police: he says that the guy with the shotgun should have been subject to prosecution. If the chief is correct that the laws are written so that scaring the bejeezus out of everyone in the Walmart (by loading and waving around a shotgun) isn’t actually a crime, then the law is an ass. > > As far as I can tell, this position differs from **doorhinge** ’s views, which are that people should be allowed to carry a gun while hunting, and that loading a firearm in a Walmart is a good way to test it out. Hahahaha. As I have stated before, I agree with the Police Chief. He stated that he would have arrested the shotgun toter IF he could have. The Police Chief couldn’t find a lawful reason to arrest the shotgun toter. Your bizarre interpretations of my posts, or my position, is absolutely hysterical. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/206 "2015-06-29T14:20:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In my view, at a minimum, that conduct gives rise to reasonable, articulable suspicion of violation of laws against brandishing and would permit the police to briefly detain the actor in order to confirm or dispel their concerns. > > I agree that loading and racking a shotgun in a retail store isn’t really relevant to hunting or target shooting in the sense of determining whther brandishing is an issue. AFAIK, (according to the media reports) the actor/suspect was detained and questioned by police. It was then decided that the actor/suspect had not violated any Mississippi, or Gulf Port laws. Several up-thread posters had questions concerning Mississippi gun laws. I suggested that they could also search hunting and game laws for rules and regulations pertaining to carrying (aka transporting). The usual suspects then proceeded to misrepresent my posts, as if that actually changed my position. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/207 "2015-06-29T15:45:54Z")
Yeah … you left out the part where everybody, his brother and the chief of police in Gulf Port think the law is fucking stupid because shit like this happens. But otherwise, nice job explaining only your side of your argument. Oh yeah, you left out the efficacy of hunting inside of Walmarts too. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/208 "2015-06-29T16:43:24Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Oh yeah, you left out the efficacy of hunting inside of Walmarts too. Best place to hunt for snipe, donchaknow. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/209 "2015-06-29T16:49:38Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Yeah … you left out the part where everybody, his brother and the chief of police in Gulf Port think the law is fucking stupid because shit like this happens. But otherwise, nice job explaining only your side of your argument. > > Oh yeah, you left out the efficacy of hunting inside of Walmarts too. Hahahaha. FYI, I’m only responsible for stating, and defending, my actual position. You can hold yourself responsible for defending any red herrings that you chose. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/210 "2015-06-29T22:24:47Z")
What is this, _Inherit the Wind_? Remember this … > [@Bricker](#): > > Can someone summarize the specific claims being made here by each side? Why did you quote him if you didn’t intend to “summarize both sides?” ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/211 "2015-06-30T14:17:32Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > What is this, _Inherit the Wind_? > > Remember this … > > Why did you quote him if you didn’t intend to “summarize both sides?” Seriously? Why would you want anyone else to summarize your side of the “debate”? You only have to peruse this thread to see how often my position has been misrepresented. It seems to me that your time and effort would have been better spent presenting your position instead of asking me to do your job. ---
**Author:** ![Clawdio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d07c76/32.png) [@Clawdio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clawdio)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/212 "2015-06-30T14:54:52Z")
I don’t think anyone has posted this yet, but the two men have now been [arrested for disturbance of the peace](http://www.sunherald.com/2015/06/26/6295868_men-who-carried-rifle-into-wal.html?rh=1). Seems about right to me, since it seems most reasonable people (gun carrier or not) would be justifiably freaked out by this activity. But maybe i’m just some piss-pants big city elite. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/213 "2015-06-30T15:18:30Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Hahahaha. As I have stated before, I agree with the Police Chief. He stated that he would have arrested the shotgun toter IF he could have. The Police Chief couldn’t find a lawful reason to arrest the shotgun toter. Do you agree with the Police Chief’s decision to arrest the shotgun toter for disturbing the peace? Do you agree with his judgment that they acted “[with deficiency in intelligence and responsibility](http://www.sunherald.com/2015/06/26/6295868_men-who-carried-rifle-into-wal.html?rh=1)?” ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/214 "2015-06-30T15:27:04Z")
> [@Clawdio](#): > > I don’t think anyone has posted this yet, but the two men have now been [arrested for disturbance of the peace](http://www.sunherald.com/2015/06/26/6295868_men-who-carried-rifle-into-wal.html?rh=1). > > Seems about right to me, since it seems most reasonable people (gun carrier or not) would be justifiably freaked out by this activity. But maybe i’m just some piss-pants big city elite. It’s nice to know that the police are following up on this case. And that the media could spare a few moments to report something about it. I wonder if the reasonable people at the Winn-Dixie and Krispy Kreme freaked out? \*Police said Saucier “engaged in the lawful open carry of a pump-action shotgun,” but he then loaded the shotgun and pumped it in front of witnesses, creating a breach of the peace. Wal-Mart personnel called police, but the men left before police arrived. Police said the men then went to Winn-Dixie and Krispy Kreme in Gulfport, but did not appear to have broken any laws there. None of the businesses had posted signs prohibiting the open carry of guns, police said.\* Read more here: [http://www.sunherald.com/2015/06/26/6295868\_men-who-carried-rifle-into-wal.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy](http://www.sunherald.com/2015/06/26/6295868_men-who-carried-rifle-into-wal.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy) ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/215 "2015-06-30T15:29:11Z")
> [@](#): > > “When persons act with deficiency in intelligence and responsibility, it can be both dangerous and unlawful.” Mississippi, where it’s unlawful to be unintelligent. Remember that. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/216 "2015-06-30T15:34:41Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I wonder if the reasonable people at the Winn-Dixie and Krispy Kreme freaked out? Although it’s unclear from the reporting, it sounds like they may not have engaged in loading and pumping in front of witnesses (i.e. disturbing the peace) at Winn-Dixie and Krispy Kreme, as they did at the Walmart. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/217 "2015-06-30T15:34:48Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > Do you agree with the Police Chief’s decision to arrest the shotgun toter for disturbing the peace? (post shortened) Of course. Now the shotgun toter will be given a chance to defend themselves in court. Guilty until proven innocent isn’t the law of the land. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/218 "2015-06-30T15:39:02Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > Although it’s unclear from the reporting, it sounds like they may not have engaged in loading and pumping in front of witnesses (i.e. disturbing the peace) at Winn-Dixie and Krispy Kreme, as they did at the Walmart. I’m shocked that it’s unclear from the reporting but, … (hehehe - I couldn’t finish that sentence with a straight face.) I look forward to the trials outcome, unless the pair chooses to take some kind of plea deal. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/219 "2015-07-06T22:02:02Z")
nm - out of date ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/220 "2015-07-06T22:56:01Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > It’s nice to know that the police are following up on this case. And that the media could spare a few moments to report something about it. > > I wonder if the reasonable people at the Winn-Dixie and Krispy Kreme freaked out? > > \*Police said Saucier “engaged in the lawful open carry of a pump-action shotgun,” but he then loaded the shotgun and pumped it in front of witnesses, creating a breach of the peace. > > Wal-Mart personnel called police, but the men left before police arrived. > > Police said the men then went to Winn-Dixie and Krispy Kreme in Gulfport, but did not appear to have broken any laws there. None of the businesses had posted signs prohibiting the open carry of guns, police said.\* > > Read more here: [http://www.sunherald.com/2015/06/26/6295868\_men-who-carried-rifle-into-wal.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy](http://www.sunherald.com/2015/06/26/6295868_men-who-carried-rifle-into-wal.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy) I don’t know why this is such a sticking point. Just because someone engages in a behavior at one location, people are other locations he visits are supposed to feel the same way? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257.md?page=10)