# Miss. police: Open carry laws kept us from arresting shotgun-toting man who terrorized shoppers. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 23, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257 "2015-06-23T16:41:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/121 "2015-06-24T15:23:26Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > If it were a 20ga, my daughter would have asked if she could see it. She’s looking for a good 20ga. At what point(if ever) does your family’s sense of self-preservation kick in? And what does Lil’ Sweetums do when he points the weapon in her face- say “Look at how smooth and clean that barrel is!”? Your faux bravery is _real_ impressive. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/122 "2015-06-24T15:26:50Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > If it were a 20ga, my daughter would have asked if she could see it. She’s looking for a good 20ga. And when you bring her to a gun store, will you recommend that she load the shotgun in the presence of the clerk? You know, just to try it out? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/123 "2015-06-24T15:32:43Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > And when you bring her to a gun store… When you say “gun store”, do you mean a Wal-Mart? Pawn shop? Sporting goods store? Outdoor equipment store? A garage sale? Craigslist? I’m confused. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/124 "2015-06-24T15:40:07Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > This incident didn’t occur in a Chicago, or a NYC, where people piss in their pants when they see a firearm. It occurred in an area where people are used to seeing firearms in the hands of hunters, target shooters, store owners, business persons, farmers, ranchers, and self-defense advocates. Police chief of Gulfport, MS, Leonard Papania: > [@](#): > > “If I were in a situation where I’m in the store shopping with my family and I see an individual loading a 12 gauge, and racking it, I’m not coming to the conclusion this is good,” said Papania. “While the actions of these two men are sanctioned by state laws, what they did negatively impacted our community.” Too bad those pants-pissing East Coast elites don’t have Police Chief Papania there to tell them the right way to react to such an incident. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/125 "2015-06-24T15:46:25Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I think the point that he was trying to make was that if one walked into a store that sold only guns and had knowledgeable staff used to guns and gun owners and if one did what those clowns did in the Walmart, then one would get the bum’s rush out of there and/or have the police summoned. I’m assuming that the proper etiquette if one was bringing in a gun into a store to see what parts might fit it would be to carry the gun in a bag or something and not make like you’re about to shoot. Around these parts, firearms are expected to be kept in a case until you reach the gunsmith, sales counter, or are inside the shooting range. But this is Illinois/Chicago where it took a recent Supreme Court decision, McDonald v. Chicago, to overturn many gun restrictions, and gun bans. Open-carry is much more common in other states. Seeing someone carrying a rifle in a rural Montana/Mississippi/Wisconsin gas station doesn’t cause the heebie jeebies suffered by some NYC matron who thinks there might be one firearm in a city of 8 million plus. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/126 "2015-06-24T15:49:11Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’m assuming that the proper etiquette if one was bringing in a gun into a store to see what parts might fit it would be to carry the gun in a bag or something and not make like you’re about to shoot. Yep. When I bought the handgun I currently own (a S&W .357 magnum) I got a good price, as it was previously owned. After completing all of the paperwork, etc I was ready to leave, but they couldn’t find the plastic case it came in. I told them that was fine, I didn’t need it. But they were not comfortable with me carrying the gun out to my car in my hand. They eventually found the case. Oh, btw, this was a _gun store_. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/127 "2015-06-24T15:51:19Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > Police chief of Gulfport, MS, Leonard Papania: > > Too bad those pants-pissing East Coast elites don’t have Police Chief Papania there to tell them the right way to react to such an incident. How do you suppose Papania would have responded “IF” he had been in the Walmart and witnessed the open-carry? Remember, it’s been agreed to by those in authority, that no one was violating any laws. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/128 "2015-06-24T15:55:54Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Open-carry is much more common in other states. Seeing someone carrying a rifle in a rural Montana/Mississippi/Wisconsin gas station doesn’t cause the heebie jeebies suffered by some NYC matron who thinks there might be one firearm in a city of 8 million plus. Gulfport is not “rural Mississippi.” I don’t recall seeing a single hunter walking around with a firearm when I was there. What are you basing your erroneous assumption on? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/129 "2015-06-24T16:09:54Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Gulfport is not “rural Mississippi.” I don’t recall seeing a single hunter walking around with a firearm when I was there. What are you basing your erroneous assumption on? Yes, Gulfport is not located in rural Montana/Mississippi/Wisconsin. I suppose it’s possible that no one in Gulfport owns, or has owned firearms. I suppose it’s possible that no one in Gulfport hunts, plinks, or target shoots either. And the residents couldn’t possibly know anyone who might do those things. I’ve never seen a single hunter walking around Gulfport with a firearm, either, but I’ve never been there. I would still like to know what information was passed along to 9-1-1 that made it necessary to dispatch SWAT. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/130 "2015-06-24T16:11:39Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > How do you suppose Papania would have responded “IF” he had been in the Walmart and witnessed the open-carry? > > Remember, it’s been agreed to by those in authority, that no one was violating any laws. Loading and racking a shotgun in the presence of a cop? I would hope the chief would _at the very least_ draw down on the fuckwit and subject him to a rather drawn-out search and questioning, before confiscating the weapon. I wouldn’t cry if the chief shot him. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/131 "2015-06-24T16:17:28Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I would still like to know what information was passed along to 9-1-1 that made it necessary to dispatch SWAT. How about, “There’s a guy in the middle of Walmart loading up a shotgun!” ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/132 "2015-06-24T16:27:47Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > Why was that decision made? In my experience as an EMT (I’ve been certified for almost 8 years), I’ve had to be present for armed standoffs, people barricading themselves in a house or room threatening suicide, and the like on several occasions. This was in a rural area of Southern Indiana, where guns are commonplace, but still enough to freak people out when they see them. It’s been my observation (this is solely for the area I cover…i’m not saying anything about Mississippi’s protocols) that, when a gun is present , SWAT is automatically dispatched. It’s SOP here. Someone barricaded in a house with family, or in a public area has the potential for hostages. And it’s better to have SWAT there, coordinating tactics, and have them not be needed than to need them, and have to wait until they get to a scene. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/133 "2015-06-24T16:30:15Z")
This highlights one of the problems with modern firearms and the 2nd amendment. You can’t be verbose enough in law to legislate what ought to be common sense for those that lack it. Open carry proponents, assuming these people are, are their own second worst enemy. It should be understood that if one is armed that it’s best to act in a non threatening manner so panic or alarm is mitigated. Where I live I see people with firearms holstered, not the police, on a semi regular basis. I pay them no mind. But a guy or two with shotguns being racked in a store is awfully suspicious behavior. I would leave that area in haste. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/134 "2015-06-24T16:34:20Z")
Several of you are still right on the edge of sniping at each other. Next bit of personally directed incivility - of any kind - earns a warning. All subsequent ones aas well. ---
**Author:** ![TommyzNR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@TommyzNR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TommyzNR)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/135 "2015-06-24T17:32:17Z")
So why not pick him up for any number of possible charges? Brandishing and assault have been mentioned as possibilities. Let a prosecutor decide if he wants to pursue charges or order his release. I think this police chief is playing this completely wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/136 "2015-06-24T17:38:02Z")
> [@TommyzNR](#): > > So why not pick him up for any number of possible charges? Brandishing and assault have been mentioned as possibilities. Let a prosecutor decide if he wants to pursue charges or order his release. I think this police chief is playing this completely wrong. What the police chief is saying is that the law’s protection of open carry is sufficiently broad so that he did not violate the brandishing law. The chief then goes on to say, essentially, that it is stupid to have a law that protects the behavior of this Walmart shopper dude, because it obviously scared the crap out of quite a few people. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/137 "2015-06-24T17:39:06Z")
> [@TommyzNR](#): > > So why not pick him up for any number of possible charges? Brandishing and assault have been mentioned as possibilities. Let a prosecutor decide if he wants to pursue charges or order his release. I think this police chief is playing this completely wrong. From the story, we have relatively few facts, but two of them are (a) he was brandishing and (b) the chief of police said he didn’t break the law. Ergo, this is one of those communities where brandishing a firearm isn’t actually a crime. It would also seem to be one of those communities where the police try not to arrest people if they haven’t committed a crime. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/138 "2015-06-24T20:27:05Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Open carry shouldn’t even cover having the gun out. Sure, in a holster where you can see it–or otherwise clearly inactive, but nothing more. There would be standards on whether you could pull your gun out, because you thought you might need to use it (which would include test firing at an appropriate location or hunting.) > > There’d also be an exception for an unloaded gun being shown to others–as long as you weren’t holding it like you were going to fire it. Essentially, if it’s reasonable to think you might be about to use it, that would not count as open carry, but another concept of being ready to use the gun, which would be more restricted. I’m a gun rights supporter and concur with BigT here. Carrying a shotgun in Walmart isn’t the problem. Loading it and racking it in front of other customers is a clear threat. I don’t know what the legal definition of “brandishing” is in Mississippi, but I would think this should be covered. The law is wrong. That doesn’t mean open carry is wrong. Carrying a weapon is not a threat. But loading it and racking it certainly is. I pulled a lot of guard duty in Iraq, and when I was at the gate, I always kept the chamber empty so that if some asshole started walking towards the gate when I said “Stop!”, I could loudly chamber a round. Stopped them in their tracks every time. I meant it, and it was taken, as a threat that “I will shoot you if you don’t comply”. I would never do that in a public place in the US. Carrying the weapon isn’t a threat. But it looks to me like this guy was threatening people. Now, if only this police chief was in Ohio when that dude was murdered by cops for carrying a toy gun… ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/139 "2015-06-24T20:29:44Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > They have bathrooms and kitchens and garages-they must also be private residences! I sold my car last year. Apparently, I’m a car dealership. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257/140 "2015-06-24T20:33:46Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Is it legal for underage customers to enter the store? It’s also legal for minors to be in liquor stores (at least in Colorado) as long as they do not touch any bottles of alcoholic beverages. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-shoppers/723257.md?page=8)