# Missing boy found after 18 years. Happily married and safe. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 11, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-boy-found-after-18-years-happily-married-and-safe/646877 "2013-01-11T17:48:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-boy-found-after-18-years-happily-married-and-safe/646877/41 "2013-01-12T13:33:12Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Well the Grandparents sure did a great job raising their son. I was thinking the same thing, not a great track record. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-boy-found-after-18-years-happily-married-and-safe/646877/42 "2013-01-12T16:55:39Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I was thinking the same thing, not a great track record. Is the father definitely still alive? It does seem really odd that there’s no mention at all of him apart from ‘had a troubled relationship with the boy’s mother’. ---
**Author:** ![St.Barthgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@St.Barthgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Barthgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-boy-found-after-18-years-happily-married-and-safe/646877/43 "2013-01-12T17:14:05Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Wait, are you equating “mental illness” and “developmental disability”? Hear Hear As to the rest, i withhold judgement til i hear the mom’s side of the story. Seems like she has no one Advocating for her. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-boy-found-after-18-years-happily-married-and-safe/646877/44 "2013-01-12T17:19:49Z")
IMO this thing could go anywhere from the Grandparents deserve a damn medal to some serious jail time. I guess when the facts come out we can make better informed decisions. I will say it is pretty gut wrenching to see a shitty/non parent royally fucking up a decent kid and at some point I wouldn’t blame somebody for saying “fuck the law”. Do we know if the bio mom ever did get her shit together? ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-boy-found-after-18-years-happily-married-and-safe/646877/45 "2013-01-12T22:17:28Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I guess when the facts come out we can make better informed decisions. It’s official: [The mother & stepfather were living out of their car](http://news.yahoo.com/official-abducted-ind-boys-mother-lived-car-175359604.html), contrary to what they told CPS. Anyone else wanna say the grandparents made the wrong decision?? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-boy-found-after-18-years-happily-married-and-safe/646877/46 "2013-01-12T22:23:09Z")
From the missing boy/man’s Facebook: “For you people who jump to conclusions you should find out the whole story I was where I needed to be. My ‘grandparents’ were in the the right I dont care what anyone else thinks.” ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-boy-found-after-18-years-happily-married-and-safe/646877/47 "2013-01-12T22:32:08Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > It’s official: [The mother & stepfather were living out of their car](http://news.yahoo.com/official-abducted-ind-boys-mother-lived-car-175359604.html), contrary to what they told CPS. > > Anyone else wanna say the grandparents made the wrong decision?? Did you read the article? They did not abduct the child when she was homeless. > [@](#): > > The mother and stepfather were unemployed and lived in a car, recalled John R. Russell, who spent several months investigating the disappearance with the LaGrange County Sheriff’s Department in Indiana. > > “These people (the grandparents) were nice people. It was wrong for them to do it, but I can understand why,” Russell said. “But I also didn’t think the child would be in any danger at all with them.” > > But an attorney for Landers’ mother refuted claims that she was homeless. Attorney Richard Muntz said Landers’ mother, Lisa Harter, spent only three days living in a car and it was with Landers’ biological father, Richard W. Landers Sr. > > She had divorced Landers’ father by the time the grandparents obtained custody after Harter, who has mild developmental disabilities, moved into a group home that could not accommodate children, Muntz said. > > Landers Sr. told the News-Sun in Kendalville, Ind., that Harter filed for divorce in 1990. He also said that he gave his parents temporary guardianship for one year because he didn’t have a job. > > After a while, Harter moved into an apartment and gained custody of her son on weekends, and she filed a petition to expand her custody rights when she remarried. > > “The judge gave her custody on a trial basis, and before she could get him, that’s when they left,” Muntz told the AP late Friday. So Grandparents. Their son and daughter-in-law are homeless. The son gives the grandparents tempoary guardianship, while he is unemployed. The Mother of the child has to move into a group home, that can’t take kids. The father of the child sues for and gets weekend visits. (why won’t his own parents let him see his kid?) When she is remarried and living in a house. She seeks and is given custody by the courts. Then they steal the kid. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-boy-found-after-18-years-happily-married-and-safe/646877/48 "2013-01-12T22:53:22Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > It’s official: [The mother & stepfather were living out of their car](http://news.yahoo.com/official-abducted-ind-boys-mother-lived-car-175359604.html), contrary to what they told CPS. > > Anyone else wanna say the grandparents made the wrong decision?? Have you ever done a CPS custody hearing? She wouldn’t have gotten custody without validation that she had a home to live in. There are home visits. There are follow up visits. There are surprise visits. If she was living in her car, the grandparents had nothing to fear at the moment. And even if she was living in her car, while she shouldn’t have gotten custody, she should have had visitation with her son if she desired it - provided there wasn’t a child safety issue. So the grandparents making the decision they made removed that right of hers. Moreover, a five year old boy has little say in who he ends up with, and a man raised by grandparents who abducted him is pretty likely to not know the whole story himself. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-boy-found-after-18-years-happily-married-and-safe/646877/49 "2013-01-12T23:00:34Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > It’s official: [The mother & stepfather were living out of their car](http://news.yahoo.com/official-abducted-ind-boys-mother-lived-car-175359604.html), contrary to what they told CPS. > > Anyone else wanna say the grandparents made the wrong decision?? EDIT: As **Zebra** said, that is not what that says. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-boy-found-after-18-years-happily-married-and-safe/646877/50 "2013-01-12T23:11:44Z")
New article with pictures. I sure hope these people aren’t charged. They said in yesterdays article that the statute of limitations ran out long ago on the original charges. > **[Revealed: The happy family life of father-to-be abducted by his grandparents...](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2261401/Michael-Richard-Landers-abducted-grandparents-age-police-19-years-later.html)** > > Michael Jeff Landers, 24, who was kidnapped by his grandparents in 1994 lives happily next door to them with his pregnant wife, Bobbie in the small town of Long Prairie, Minnesota. The couple have defended the grandparents for removing him from his... > [@](#): > > A man abducted by his grandparents at the age of five lives next door to them with his new wife and is preparing to be a father himself. > > The impression of a close and happy family life was emerging in the case of Richard Landers Jr, now 24, who was kidnapped by his grandparents as a young child. > > Police found the grandparents and Landers almost 19 years after he went missing in an operation, praised by his parents, Lisa Harter and Richard Landers Sr, who had almost given up hope of seeing him again. > > But both Landers and his new wife have praised rather than criticized his parents. In a Facebook post Bobby Landers said his grandparents kept her husband ‘safe’ as a child. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-boy-found-after-18-years-happily-married-and-safe/646877/51 "2013-01-12T23:31:32Z")
I don’t see much new there, or any reason they shouldn’t be prosecuted. Which is not to say they should be convicted, but common sense and the law demand that they should at least have to defend their act, no? Surely being good parents after the fact does not justify or excuse an abduction. The quotes from the young man and his wife are total red herrings. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-boy-found-after-18-years-happily-married-and-safe/646877/52 "2013-01-13T00:42:33Z")
So, to recap, the grandparents kidnapped the child just to prevent visitation? Or am I reading that wrong? As to the grandson defending them, that’s not very surprising on several fronts. Even if they were horrible at raising him, there’s the Stockholm Syndrome to consider. If, on the other hand, they did right by him, he undoubtedly loves them partially _because_ that’s all he’s known. And I noted that he still lives on their property. I don’t know about you, but if I bad mouth someone, they’re probably not going to keep giving me a place to live. Now, maybe they did do the right thing, but just based on the evidence thus far (and emotions or projection aside), it appears that they should indeed be charged for their crime. Just because you do what you think you have to do, doesn’t mean you also don’t have to pay the consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Skypist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skypist/32/169_2.png) [@Skypist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skypist)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-boy-found-after-18-years-happily-married-and-safe/646877/53 "2013-01-13T01:43:21Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > If they had a good reason to do what they did, to take that risk, it should still be good enough to face prosecution with. Grandparents, you achieved your objective in raising the kid away from their mother; _now_ make your case for why it was necessary and how you were able to determine this when others did not. And if your argument is not persuasive, face the music. Disclaimer: IANAL. Even if their argument for why they did it is valid, shouldn’t that count only as mitigating circumstances, not a get-out-of-trouble free card? They still overrode the court’s decision and ran roughshod over the mother’s rights. The grandparents may have been right about her, but they are also emotionally involved and probably not very objective I don’t like the idea of kids being given to parents who are obviously messed up, but OTOH I wouldn’t like to see a precedent set where if the kid turned out okay and the abductors seem like nice people, then it’s okay for them to do what they did. Then any grandparent or interested party might be able to get away with it, too, even if the kid isn’t in danger and they just don’t like the parent. > [@buddha\_david](#): > > In my experience, nobody with a verified mental illness should be allowed to raise a child. The risk is too great, and unlike drug addiction, you can’t wake up one morning and decide to stop being mentally ill. Wow. “Mental illness” encompasses a lot of conditions. > [@Dangerosa](#): > > One thing it does explain is that they could not know whether his mother would be a decent parent or if the child would indeed be unsafe - they never even gave her a chance once she was on her feet. > > They knew when they accepted custody of their grandchild that the state would work to reunite him with his birth parents if possible at some future date. If they didn’t want that risk, they didn’t need to take the responsibility. > > However, his mother had parental rights. The grandparents took those away from her. Its possible to loose parental right, but that is the courts responsibility done through due process, not a unilateral decision made by grandparents. I agree with this. I can understand their position if they truly felt the child was in danger, but OTOH they might have done this because they didn’t like her and they wanted to be the one to raise him. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-boy-found-after-18-years-happily-married-and-safe/646877/54 "2013-01-13T03:07:04Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > it appears that they should indeed be charged for their crime. I thought that the statute of limitations had expired. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-boy-found-after-18-years-happily-married-and-safe/646877/55 "2013-01-13T14:33:11Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I thought that the statute of limitations had expired. It isn’t the best cite, but I don’t think so: [Divorce Settlement Statute of Limitations in Chicago, Illinois | Law for Families](http://www.ehow.com/about_6607822_statute-limitations-kidnapping.html) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-boy-found-after-18-years-happily-married-and-safe/646877/56 "2013-01-13T15:10:34Z")
> [@From link](#): > > Prosecutors dropped the charges against them years ago when the boy could not be found. > > The statute of limitations has since expired so they cannot be charged again. [Link](http://www.gadailynews.com/news/national/147979-boy-abducted-in-94-found-richard-landers-5-taken-by-his-grandparents-in-1994-now-living-in-minnesota.html) I have no idea if the journalist is correct. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-boy-found-after-18-years-happily-married-and-safe/646877/57 "2013-01-13T16:00:00Z")
If the charge was custodial interference rather than kidnapping the statute of limitations could indeed have expired. StG ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-boy-found-after-18-years-happily-married-and-safe/646877/58 "2013-01-13T16:29:51Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Regardless, it was the job of social services and the court system to determine if she was or was not on her feet at that time. Now, we will not know, and the mother has been not been able to excercise her parental rights, or been given due process to have them denied, been denied her sons childhood, and perhaps any relationship with him at all because the grandparents decided that they knew better than the people who had the responsibility and authority to decide. > > That vigelantism. I’m not as willing to assume, in the presence of contradictory evidence, that ‘the system and due process’ is always right in some individual case. To my mind, what is most important in custody cases is the best interests of the child, not necessarily the rights of a biological parent over than child. To my mind, parenting isn’t merely a matter of biology, but also one of establishing relationships - I don’t regard adoptive parents as any less parents. In this case, the uncontroverted (so far) facts appear to be that the grandparents had raised this kid to age 5 because of mom’s (and dad’s) various problems. It could well be that, just as a man who bows out of taking major care of his kids because of his problems (but then breezes in after a few years and wants custody rights from the mother), at that point it would be effectively too late as far as the kid was concerned - not so much “Stockholm Syndrome” as “these people are my real parents and you are now a stranger to me”. Certainly the boy’s responses at the time (and the man’s responses now) are consistent with such a theory, no? If ‘the system and due process’ was clearly not delivering the best interests of the kid, I’m not as willing to wish punishment on the grandparents now as a matter of course, even though what they did was illegal. The concept of limitations is designed for this sort of situation. OTOH, as I’ve said many times, we don’t know all the facts, and the ones we have been told turn out to be controversial - was she living in a car or not? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-boy-found-after-18-years-happily-married-and-safe/646877/59 "2013-01-13T16:56:51Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I’m not as willing to assume, in the presence of contradictory evidence, that ‘the system and due process’ is always right in some individual case. > > To my mind, what is most important in custody cases is the best interests of the child, not necessarily the rights of a biological parent over than child. To my mind, parenting isn’t merely a matter of biology, but also one of establishing relationships - I don’t regard adoptive parents as any less parents. In this case, the uncontroverted (so far) facts appear to be that the grandparents had raised this kid to age 5 because of mom’s (and dad’s) various problems. It could well be that, just as a man who bows out of taking major care of his kids because of his problems (but then breezes in after a few years and wants custody rights from the mother), at that point it would be effectively too late as far as the kid was concerned - not so much “Stockholm Syndrome” as “these people are my real parents and you are now a stranger to me”. Certainly the boy’s responses at the time (and the man’s responses now) are consistent with such a theory, no? > > If ‘the system and due process’ was clearly not delivering the best interests of the kid, I’m not as willing to wish punishment on the grandparents now as a matter of course, even though what they did was illegal. The concept of limitations is designed for this sort of situation. > > OTOH, as I’ve said many times, we don’t know all the facts, and the ones we have been told turn out to be controversial - was she living in a car or not? It is certainly not always right, but it is the law and the established process. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-boy-found-after-18-years-happily-married-and-safe/646877/60 "2013-01-13T17:00:22Z")
And sometimes the law fails in epic fashion. When that happens (not saying it DID here) have a trial, look for an excuse to give a ceremonial slap on the wrist and move on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-boy-found-after-18-years-happily-married-and-safe/646877.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-boy-found-after-18-years-happily-married-and-safe/646877.md?page=4)