# Missing Soccer Team Found Alive in Cave **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 2, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173 "2018-07-02T17:03:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/481 "2018-07-17T04:17:03Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > There is a difference between answering honestly and adding language about shoving it up his \*\*\*. He could have been blunt and remained mature by stating “it was useless” or something like that. …when you’ve spent weeks walking up and down cave-systems and diving through some of the most dangerous environments in the world to rescue 13 trapped people there is nothing immature about telling a egotistical arsehole who is actively taking the limelight away from those who truly deserves it to “shove it up their arse” in my, most humblest of opinions. He could have been blunt. He could have said “it was useless.” But by telling him to shove it up his arse we get a much more accurate window into how many in the rescue team really saw Musks actions. And Musk’s response really showed us exactly what kind of person he is. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/482 "2018-07-17T05:43:33Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …when you’ve spent weeks walking up and down cave-systems and diving through some of the most dangerous environments in the world to rescue 13 trapped people there is nothing immature about telling a egotistical arsehole who is actively taking the limelight away from those who truly deserves it to “shove it up their arse” in my, most humblest of opinions. I disagree with this, it was immature. > [@](#): > > He could have been blunt. He could have said “it was useless.” But by telling him to shove it up his arse we get a much more accurate window into how many in the rescue team really saw Musks actions. Do you have any data to back this up? I was curious and googled and couldn’t find any public info from the rest of the team. > [@](#): > > And Musk’s response really showed us exactly what kind of person he is. I completely agree with this. While he had some humble and socially acceptable tweets (e.g. after someone thanked the team and included Musk, he replied something like “we didn’t do anything yet, it was the other guys”), his response to this one was completely off the charts and kind of weird really. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/483 "2018-07-17T06:10:23Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > I disagree with this, it was immature. …I disagree with this, it was appropriate. > [@](#): > > Do you have any data to back this up? I was curious and googled and couldn’t find any public info from the rest of the team. Of course I don’t have any data to “back this up.” Which is why I said “window” into how they really felt instead of “this is what they definitely really felt.” I’m sure if you were to interview them now they would all be “polite” and “restrained” and “measured” and maybe not so blunt. So what we’ve got is really all we are gonna get. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/484 "2018-07-17T08:06:25Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …when you’ve spent weeks walking up and down cave-systems and diving through some of the most dangerous environments in the world to rescue 13 trapped people there is nothing immature about telling a egotistical arsehole who is actively taking the limelight away from those who truly deserves it to “shove it up their arse” in my, most humblest of opinions. > > He could have been blunt. He could have said “it was useless.” But by telling him to shove it up his arse we get a much more accurate window into how many in the rescue team really saw Musks actions. And Musk’s response really showed us exactly what kind of person he is. I agree with this. Musk came across as a spoiled, petulant child who was told to go to his room. The diver was blunt with him, but I can understand why. He showed a great deal of self-control in his comments. He could have lost his temper in the heat of the moment and actually told Musk to shove the submarine up his arse, using those exact words, instead of just telling him to shove it where it hurts. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/485 "2018-07-17T08:44:25Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Do you have any data to back this up? Ah yes, asking for “data” on something where it’s silly to think there is any. Is this a geek thing? ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/486 "2018-07-17T09:01:20Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > Ah yes, asking for “data” on something where it’s silly to think there is any. Is this a geek thing? It’s similar to the standard response many people make when they know they’ve lost the argument, but don’t want to admit it. “But can you _prove_ that?” ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Mondegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lord\_Mondegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Mondegreen)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/487 "2018-07-17T10:01:27Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > Australian news show _4 Corners_ has an hour long report on the rescue. It includes footage from inside the cave and interviews with 2 of the divers who brought the kids out. Listening to the British diver describe the difficulties involved in moving the boys through the water really brought home what an amazing feat it was. > > [Four Corners : ABC iview](https://iview.abc.net.au/show/four-corners) > > Hopefully not region-locked. Being Australia-based and having travelled overseas many times, unfortunately ABC iView is definitely blocked for non-Australians. Of course there are various products available to get around these restrictions. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/488 "2018-07-17T15:44:01Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > Ah yes, asking for “data” on something where it’s silly to think there is any. Is this a geek thing? **Prior** to posting on the topic of Musk’s tweets, I had googled to try to find out if any of the other team members or journalists at the cave had made any comments about Musk’s involvement. I was curious about Musk’s behavior and if he had done or said something that wasn’t widely reported that pissed off the team, or if Unsworth was personally annoyed but others didn’t necessarily feel the same way. When **Banquet Bear** posted, I thought he/she may have found exactly what I had been looking for **prior** to even posting about this topic. For some reason, you seem to be thinking that there couldn’t have been some incident I wasn’t aware of, or that there couldn’t have been any other publicly reported comments from team members. Not sure why you think those possibilities are silly. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/489 "2018-07-17T15:48:37Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > it’s my issued student ID when I was in college; first and last initial followed by a sequential number. > > Nice try. It wasn’t a “try” at insulting you but I’m not surprised you didn’t understand that. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/490 "2018-07-17T15:50:38Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > It’s similar to the standard response many people make when they know they’ve lost the argument, but don’t want to admit it. > > “But can you _prove_ that?” Funny; I was about to make a comment on how “everyone just knows it’s true” is the last refuge of people who know they’ve got nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/491 "2018-07-17T15:57:00Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > it’s my issued student ID when I was in college; first and last initial followed by a sequential number. > > Nice try. By the way, are you prepared to acknowledge that your previous criticism of my use of honorific was unfounded? I’ll keep checking back for that apology. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/492 "2018-07-17T16:42:25Z")
Sometimes the dog that didn’t bark in the night is a clue. Suppose Vern Unsworth wasn’t expressing the feelings of everyone involved. Suppose some of the other divers or the Thai authorities felt grateful for Musk’s misguided good intentions, however stupid. (I say stupid because he didn’t even bother to find out the conditions in the cave. A two-minute conversation with any of the divers would have established beforehand that his capsule would be utterly useless. Getting it right, or actually being helpful, clearly didn’t matter to Musk - so it can only have been the PR that mattered.) If there was any significant disagreement with what Unsworth said, surely someone would have spoken up by now? Surely someone would have said that he went overboard and didn’t express the feelings of others? However, nobody else has said a word in favour of Musk. The silence has been deafening. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/493 "2018-07-17T16:51:28Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Sometimes the dog that didn’t bark in the night is a clue. > > Suppose Vern Unsworth wasn’t expressing the feelings of everyone involved. Suppose some of the other divers or the Thai authorities felt grateful for Musk’s misguided good intentions, however stupid. > > (I say stupid because he didn’t even bother to find out the conditions in the cave. A two-minute conversation with any of the divers would have established beforehand that his capsule would be utterly useless. Getting it right, or actually being helpful, clearly didn’t matter to Musk - so it can only have been the PR that mattered.) > > If there was any significant disagreement with what Unsworth said, surely someone would have spoken up by now? Surely someone would have said that he went overboard and didn’t express the feelings of others? However, nobody else has said a word in favour of Musk. The silence has been deafening. More supposition, tho with no evidence. In fact, you’re citing the absence of evidence as proof. At this point, it seems likely that peer pressure amongst the rescue team alone would keep people from speaking out in support of Mr. Musk. Who would want to appear to be insulting Mr. Unsworth, whom they all presumably have worked with and are grateful to for his maps and other assistance? Who would want to endure withering stares and bad attitude from people they have to deal with every day, for what is ultimately a useless bunch of finger-pointing and name-calling? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/494 "2018-07-17T16:54:15Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …its the “both-sides” whataboutism that makes what you said problematic. I forgot to address this earlier: there is no “whataboutism” coming from me. “Whataboutism” is an attempt to excuse one thing based on another similar things occurrence and this is something that I have not done here. I have criticized both actions by both men; one did not excuse the other. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/495 "2018-07-17T19:56:04Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I have criticized both actions by both men; one did not excuse the other. …there is absolutely no need to criticize Unsworth. None at all. You didn’t need to criticize the actions of both men. You chose to criticize Unsworth and you gave him the very same amount of criticism as you gave Musk. The two actions were not equal and its silly to pretend that they were. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/496 "2018-07-18T16:35:46Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …there is absolutely no need to criticize Unsworth. None at all. You didn’t need to criticize the actions of both men. You chose to criticize Unsworth and you gave him the very same amount of criticism as you gave Musk. The two actions were not equal and its silly to pretend that they were. No; that’s clearly an inaccurate description of what I’ve written. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/497 "2018-07-18T16:38:15Z")
[They’re out of the hospital](https://apnews.com/ec9d8afac2c04544bfb2cec308f2e848/Out-of-hospital,-Thai-boys-recount-moment-they-were-found)! > [@](#): > > The group, looking healthy after recuperating at a hospital, entered to applause from reporters and classmates and put on a quick demonstration of their ball-handling skills on a miniature soccer field set up in the hall where they met journalists from around the world. > > The boys — dressed in green and white uniforms with a red wild boar, their team’s nickname — then hugged their friends before taking seats up front with doctors and members of the Thai navy SEAL unit that helped rescue them. Others who helped them during their ordeal, which ended after more than two weeks when they were brought out of the cave last week, were also there. > > In one poignant and emotional moment, a portrait was displayed of Saman Gunan, the former Thai navy SEAL diver who died in the rescue attempt, and the team members showed their gratitude and respect for him. One of the boys, Chanin Vibulrungruang, covered his eyes as if wiping away a tear. > [@](#): > > Doctors said the 13 were healthy in body and mind. They said the boys gained around 3 kilograms (6.6 pounds) on average since they were rescued from the cave. They were said to have lost an average of 4 kilograms (9 pounds) during the more than two weeks they were trapped in the cave. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/498 "2018-07-18T17:07:35Z")
I wouldn’t be surprised if the team is practicing again within a couple weeks. I assume they have a season and games scheduled? May be awhile before the kids feel strong enough to resume competition. The coaches need to be patient and begin slowly. They certainly look rested and healthy. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/499 "2018-07-18T17:46:49Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …there is absolutely no need to criticize Unsworth. None at all. You didn’t need to criticize the actions of both men. You chose to criticize Unsworth and you gave him the very same amount of criticism as you gave Musk. The two actions were not equal and its silly to pretend that they were. You do realize that one of the key cave divers (Stanton) asked Musk to keep working on the mini-sub because they were worried about the smallest kid, right? (“we’re worried about the smallest lad, please keep working on the capsule”) So Musk continues working on it at the request of one of the two key divers (Unsworth was not one of these two key people), and you think it’s ok that Unsworth tells Mush to shove it up his \*\*\*? Because he tried to help? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/500 "2018-07-18T17:52:52Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > You do realize that one of the key cave divers (Stanton) asked Musk to keep working on the mini-sub because they were worried about the smallest kid, right? (“we’re worried about the smallest lad, please keep working on the capsule”) > > So Musk continues working on it at the request of one of the two key divers (Unsworth was not one of these two key people), and you think it’s ok that Unsworth tells Mush to shove it up his \*\*\*? Because he tried to help? Unsworth was _asked by an interviewer after the rescue was complete_ what he thought of the capsule, and based on his knowledge of the caves and having presumably seen the capsule gave his opinion of whether it could have been useful. Again, he was _asked for his opinion by someone._ We don’t know how much Stanton knew about the specifics of the capsule before it had been delivered. So yeah, if what Elon dropped off was that inappropriate for the task at hand, I don’t see any problem with Unsworth scorning it. Unsworth’s attitude seems to be “what the hell was this guy thinking” and expressed it as such. I think an absurd but appropriate analogy I read was it was like your neighbor’s house is on fire, and you try to help by spending a bunch of resources on building a big fan. You know, because fire is hot and fans cool things down. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173.md?page=26)