# Missing Soccer Team Found Alive in Cave **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 2, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173 "2018-07-02T17:03:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/501 "2018-07-18T18:02:54Z")
One thing about today’s Wild Boars press conference was that they said they could all swim, though some of them weren’t “strong swimmers”. That was something that our own **Ale** wrote a few pages back … that the reports that none of the boys could swim were false. I am curious as to how **Ale** knew that, but I completely understand **Ale** not wanting to get into it on a message board. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/502 "2018-07-18T18:48:22Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > Unsworth was _asked by an interviewer after the rescue was complete_ what he thought of the capsule, and based on his knowledge of the caves and having presumably seen the capsule gave his opinion of whether it could have been useful. Again, he was _asked for his opinion by someone._ > > We don’t know how much Stanton knew about the specifics of the capsule before it had been delivered. > > So yeah, if what Elon dropped off was that inappropriate for the task at hand, I don’t see any problem with Unsworth scorning it. Unsworth’s attitude seems to be “what the hell was this guy thinking” and expressed it as such. I think an absurd but appropriate analogy I read was it was like your neighbor’s house is on fire, and you try to help by spending a bunch of resources on building a big fan. You know, because fire is hot and fans cool things down. The rest of your analogy (using actual statements between Musk and Stanton): Fire chief (Stanton) says “yes build the fan, it could be useful” You say (Musk) “sounds good will continue…however, don’t want to put it on a plane if important changes are needed…” And the fire chief (Stanton) responds “it is absolutely worth continuing with this development in as timely manner as feasible. If the rains hold out it may well be used” You say (Musk) " if it’s not needed or won’t help that would be great to know, otherwise it would be helpful to have as much design direction as possible" And after it’s all done, some guy that is NOT the fire chief, says you should shove the fan up your \*\*\*. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/503 "2018-07-18T19:08:52Z")
Anyone know if Musk tried to get anyone on his team who was familiar with caves? Did he contact the [National Speleological Society](http://caves.org/) or the [Cave Research Foundation](http://www.cave-research.org/) to see if they could send someone to work with them, and give them a sense of what cave environments are like? Because I’m still rolling my eyes at the pix of the Cave Dildo. I’m trying to think of a cave I’ve been in where it could have gotten very far in. Maybe [Cave Mountain Cave](https://pubs.er.usgs.gov/publication/70044497), which has a pretty big entrance passage. But that’s the only one that comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/504 "2018-07-19T02:05:09Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > No; that’s clearly an inaccurate description of what I’ve written. …if I had intended to quote exactly what you said then I would have used the quote function. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/505 "2018-07-19T02:22:21Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > The rest of your analogy (using actual statements between Musk and Stanton): > Fire chief (Stanton) says “yes build the fan, it could be useful” > > You say (Musk) “sounds good will continue…however, don’t want to put it on a plane if important changes are needed…” > > And the fire chief (Stanton) responds “it is absolutely worth continuing with this development in as timely manner as feasible. If the rains hold out it may well be used” > > You say (Musk) " if it’s not needed or won’t help that would be great to know, otherwise it would be helpful to have as much design direction as possible" > And after it’s all done, some guy that is NOT the fire chief, says you should shove the fan up your \*\*\*. ok ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/506 "2018-07-19T02:29:45Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > You do realize that one of the key cave divers (Stanton) asked Musk to keep working on the mini-sub because they were worried about the smallest kid, right? (“we’re worried about the smallest lad, please keep working on the capsule”) …with all due respect, I don’t give a fuck what Stanton said. That had nothing to do with what you quoted from me. > [@](#): > > So Musk continues working on it at the request of one of the two key divers (Unsworth was not one of these two key people), and you think it’s ok that Unsworth tells Mush to shove it up his \*\*\*? If it weren’t for Unsworth the boys would be dead. > [@](#): > > In the early days of the search operation, Unsworth said he quickly realised that outside expertise was required, and advised the Thai authorities to bring in specialist cave divers who had dealt with similar rescues in the past. > > “It was a race against time,” he said. “They needed world class divers and that’s what we got.” > > He was the first one to suggest calling for help from Volanthen, Stanton and Robert Harper – who arrived a few days into the search on June 27. [https://www.unreservedmedia.com/british-diver-insists-not-heroes-thai-cave-rescue/](https://www.unreservedmedia.com/british-diver-insists-not-heroes-thai-cave-rescue/) He called on Stanton. He insisted that they keep looking for the boys. He knew the layout of the caves. Stop trying to diminish what this man did. He was one of many key people and if he hadn’t been there from the beginning this whole thing would probably have ended in tragedy. > [@](#): > > Because he tried to help? Nope. Not because he tried to help. > [@](#): > > And after it’s all done, some guy that is NOT the fire chief, says you should shove the fan up your \*\*\*. Seriously bad analogy. This wasn’t a fire station. This was a crisis. A race against time. This was a largely volunteer effort, pulled together out-of-nothing where people put their lives on the line with a plan that had potentially multiple points of failure and they worked together and somehow managed to make it all work. Unsworth owes nothing to nobody. Stanton isn’t his “boss”, he’s just the guy who had all the right skills who (appropriately) took charge during the operation. Because when you have a plan with multiple points of failure hobbled together on the fly with lives on the line thats how you get shit done. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/507 "2018-07-19T02:54:17Z")
shh, he’s busy carrying the water of a billionaire who doesn’t even know he exists. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/508 "2018-07-19T16:23:26Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …with all due respect, I don’t give a fuck what Stanton said. That had nothing to do with what you quoted from me. Of course it does, it shows that, at minimum, one of the guys in charge of the rescue wanted Musk’s help and wanted him to build the thing. In summary: 1 - Musk offers help, offers an idea 2 - Stanton says essentially “yes, that might be useful, plz get it done as fast as possible” 3 - Musk says “ok, plz let us know if you don’t think it will be usefull and plz provide design guidance” 4 - Unsworth says Musk can shove this thing up his \*\*\* What did Musk say or do that you think deserves a verbal attack from Unsworth given that Musk was working at the direction of Stanton? Is it because Musk offered to help at all? Is it because the thing that Stanton thought might be valuable wasn’t actually needed? Is it because the design wasn’t appropriate? Is it because Musk tweeted about his attempt to help? Is it because Musk has a big ego? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/509 "2018-07-19T16:36:24Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Is it because Musk tweeted about his attempt to help? > Is it because Musk has a big ego? Certainly this is one reason I object. Many other people and groups were actively involved in the effort and I don’t remember hearing from any of them. And his response to Unsworth, whatever the provocation, was immature and inappropriate. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/510 "2018-07-19T17:41:02Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Certainly this is one reason I object. Many other people and groups were actively involved in the effort and I don’t remember hearing from any of them. And his response to Unsworth, whatever the provocation, was immature and inappropriate. I completely agree with all of this. I thought his tweeting seemed self-centered and his response to Unsworth was completely wrong. But, tweeting about efforts to help, efforts that are approved and partially directed by Stanton, doesn’t rise to the level of “shove it up his \*\*\*” comment from Unsworth. That is rude and immature. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/511 "2018-07-19T17:44:23Z")
One of the fascinating facts that has come out is that four of the team members are not Thai citizens, but considered ‘stateless’–including multilingual Adul, the kid who actually greeted the divers when they first surfaced. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/512 "2018-07-19T17:54:53Z")
He flew the mini-sub to Thailand and took it into the cave himself. There was absolutely no reason he personally needed to do that if his sole purpose was to be helpful. I personally think Stanton was humoring Musk with his messages, but even if Stanton truly believed the sub could be useful, it clearly wasn’t needed by the time Musk flew to Thailand. Yet he still insisted on making a spectacle and detracting from the critical work going on at the time. Unsworth had every right to be mad. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/513 "2018-07-19T18:01:05Z")
That sort of thing (taking the mini-sub into the cave himself) is an indication that he feels the need to be proven correct. That’s not what one would expect from a healthy, mature corporate CEO. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/514 "2018-07-19T18:15:01Z")
Musk is just mad because he tried to shove his way in as a hero and people weren’t having any of it. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/515 "2018-07-19T18:18:00Z")
One amusing bit from the press conference the other day; Adul (the English-speaking kid who spoke to the British divers when they were found) said something to the effect that he thought he was hallucinating when they appeared. I can imagine; they’ve been alone for nine days or so, are hungry and thirsty, and out of the water come two Westerners. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/516 "2018-07-19T23:02:08Z")
…did you seriously just make a list? > [@RaftPeople](#): > > Of course it does, …of course it doesn’t. > [@](#): > > it shows that, at minimum, one of the guys in charge of the rescue wanted Musk’s help and wanted him to build the thing. Here’s what you quoted from me. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …there is absolutely no need to criticize Unsworth. None at all. You didn’t need to criticize the actions of both men. You chose to criticize Unsworth and you gave him the very same amount of criticism as you gave Musk. The two actions were not equal and its silly to pretend that they were. So how the fuck does the fact that “one of the guys in charge of the rescue wanted Musk’s help and wanted him to build the thing” relate to my statement that “there is absolutely no need to criticize Unsworth?” It doesn’t. > [@](#): > > In summary: > 1 - Musk offers help, offers an idea > 2 - Stanton says essentially “yes, that might be useful, plz get it done as fast as possible” > 3 - Musk says “ok, plz let us know if you don’t think it will be usefull and plz provide design guidance” > 4 - Unsworth says Musk can shove this thing up his \*\*\* Still nothing to do with what I said. > [@](#): > > What did Musk say or do that you think deserves a verbal attack from Unsworth given that Musk was working at the direction of Stanton? It wasn’t a verbal attack. It was a genuine response from a guy not used to talking to the media answering a question as asked. Over the last few months Musk has spent his time attacking women scientists, including Upulie Divisekera, whom he called the science she specialises in as “BS”, and women in media who have been coming after Musk for the way he treats his workforce. In his attack on Unsworth not only did he call him a pedo (and doubled down on it later in his tweet-storm) but he also called out the rescue effort, said he never saw “this British expat guy” when he visited the caves, demanded video proof of the actual rescue, claimed the water levels were low and not flowing, claimed you could literally have swum to Cave 5 with no gear, and that he was going to send his submarine into the caves to prove that it could be done. Are those the words of a person you would want to trust the lives of 13 people too? Do you really think that Musk had a clue what was really going on? The guy doesn’t have a fucking clue. > [@](#): > > Is it because Musk offered to help at all? > Is it because the thing that Stanton thought might be valuable wasn’t actually needed? > Is it because the design wasn’t appropriate? > Is it because Musk tweeted about his attempt to help? > Is it because Musk has a big ego? > [@Unsworth](#): > > He can stick his submarine where it hurts. It had absolutely no chance of working. He had no conception of what the cave passage was like. The submarine, I believe, was something like 5 foot, 6 foot long, rigid, so it wouldn’t have gone around corners or round any obstacles. It wouldn’t have made it into the first 50 metres of the cave from the dive starting point. Just a PR stunt. > [@Musk](#): > > Never saw this British expat guy who lives in Thailand (sus) at any point when we were in the caves. Only people in sight were the Thai navy/army guys, who were great. Thai navy seals escorted us in — total opposite of wanting us to leave. > > Water level was actually very low & still (not flowing) — you could literally have swum to Cave 5 with no gear, which is obv how the kids got in. If not true, then I challenge this dude to show final rescue video. Huge credit to pump & generator team. Unsung heroes here. > > You know what, don’t bother showing the video. We will make one of the mini-sub/pod going all the way to Cave 5 no problemo. Sorry pedo guy, you really did ask for it. Unsworth answered your question in the interview. I’m not entirely sure why you are confused. The very fact that Unsworth believes that the sub couldn’t get the sub past the first 50 metres of the tunnel shows that the development of the sub was done in a complete vacuum. With zero consultation. The fact that Stanton said essentially “yes, that might be useful, plz get it done as fast as possible” is irrelevant. Because I’m pretty sure that Stanton was saying that to every single offer of help that wasn’t directly getting in the way of the rescue. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/517 "2018-07-20T00:00:29Z")
It looks like the Thai government have offered the international teams elite five year visas, including airfare and a weeks free holiday vacation. Pretty sweet thank you! ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/518 "2018-07-20T00:26:14Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > In his attack on Unsworth not only did he call him a pedo (and doubled down on it later in his tweet-storm) but he also called out the rescue effort, said he never saw “this British expat guy” when he visited the caves, demanded video proof of the actual rescue, claimed the water levels were low and not flowing, claimed you could literally have swum to Cave 5 with no gear, and that he was going to send his submarine into the caves to prove that it could be done. Yeah, so what happened with that last point? Did Musk actually try to send his sub into the cave, or was that just more off the cuff bullshit? I was really interested to see if the sub could actually reach the rescue point (pretty sure it couldn’t). ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/519 "2018-07-20T00:30:42Z")
I firmly believe Musk was being humored. There is no way that sub was useful in a cave. Imagine being sandwiched into a tube that bangs off of every rock sticking out along miles of travel. It’s a Wile E. Coyote trip down a mountain only horizontal. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/520 "2018-07-20T00:48:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I firmly believe Musk was being humored. There’s another possibility. In early reports, I remember seeing that Musk was going to create a soft, flexible capsule out of very durable but flexible fabric. It’s used for rocket fuel or something, if I remember correctly. I was surprised when I first saw pictures of the rigid steel capsule, because it was very different from what I was expecting. Probably the original idea was what Stanton encouraged, but for some reason they couldn’t get it to work, so Musk made something completely different… and useless. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173.md?page=27)