# Missing Soccer Team Found Alive in Cave **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 2, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173 "2018-07-02T17:03:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/61 "2018-07-04T23:59:52Z")
Well, I hope they only open it when it’s safe. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/62 "2018-07-05T02:41:25Z")
For anyone thinking “SCUBA diving’s not that hard, what’s the big deal,” it’s a different beast when you combine it with spelunking. In the open ocean, you’ve generally got decent visibility, plenty of ambient light (i.e. a clear sense of which way is up), and lots of open space. Now imagine [this instead -](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtlwoX1YEmg#t=150) except combine it with possible zero-visibility conditions, if you happen to stir up some mud or the water is already murky because of entrained sediment. Now imagine you’ve accidentally had your regulator tugged out of your mouth by catching it on a rock or something. And your tank isn’t strapped to your back, because you’re squeezing through a tight passage. Good luck finding your regulator again in the murky water before your lungs run out of oxygen. And which way is up? If you’re hanging from a tree branch, it’s easy to tell even in the dark, but when you’re underwater, it’s much more difficult. IOW, you better be DAMN good at SCUBA before you try swimming out of a miles-long cave. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/63 "2018-07-05T02:46:16Z")
I can’t even watch that video. I started to watch it and began to have a panic attack from the thought of getting stuck. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/64 "2018-07-05T03:13:44Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > For anyone thinking “SCUBA diving’s not that hard, what’s the big deal,” it’s a different beast when you combine it with spelunking. In the open ocean, you’ve generally got decent visibility, plenty of ambient light (i.e. a clear sense of which way is up), and lots of open space. > > Now imagine [this instead -](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtlwoX1YEmg#t=150) except combine it with possible zero-visibility conditions, if you happen to stir up some mud or the water is already murky because of entrained sediment. Now imagine you’ve accidentally had your regulator tugged out of your mouth by catching it on a rock or something. And your tank isn’t strapped to your back, because you’re squeezing through a tight passage. Good luck finding your regulator again in the murky water before your lungs run out of oxygen. And which way is up? If you’re hanging from a tree branch, it’s easy to tell even in the dark, but when you’re underwater, it’s much more difficult. > > IOW, you better be DAMN good at SCUBA before you try swimming out of a miles-long cave. And if the regulator gets knocked out of your mouth in zero visibility I really hope you grab the right one. You have three on a setup like that in the linked video. Might have four on some tech rigs. And depending on how deep you are underwater trying to breath from the wrong one might prove quickly fatal. Different gas mixes for different depths is a standard feature of technical diving. Mixes with [low oxygen levels and helium](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_operating_depth) area used at extreme depths. Breath that in too shallow a depth and you might not have enough oxygen to stay conscious. Mixes with very high oxygen 80%+ levels are useful to speed decompression in shallow depths. But such high oxygen levels when [breathed at even modest depths](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_operating_depth) of 40ft or deeper may quickly [cause seizures](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_toxicity) and resultant loss of consciousness and drowning. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/65 "2018-07-05T03:21:01Z")
Holy crap, I can’t watch it either. Why do people do this stuff for fun? Nope. You won’t find me in that cave. ---
**Author:** ![vperry1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ee7513/32.png) [@vperry1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vperry1)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/66 "2018-07-05T03:48:55Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > Why the hell were they there in the first place?? Anywhere where you could potentially get stranded for weeks isn’t somewhere that a fucking soccer coach had any business taking a bunch of kids with no survival training, in a foreign country. That’s what I’m waiting to find out. I think after the rescue happens, there will be a lot of question that need to be answered. Why does a coach bring young boys into a cave? How often is this done? I have the feeling that the boys will have things to say that will make the rescue a side note. Something smells off. I hope to hell I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/67 "2018-07-05T03:50:37Z")
Is there a reason they don’t try to get to them from above? Danger of collapse for the roof, maybe? Maybe they could dig into a nearby area that would be safer. StG ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/68 "2018-07-05T03:52:59Z")
> [@vperry1](#): > > That’s what I’m waiting to find out. I think after the rescue happens, there will be a lot of question that need to be answered. Why does a coach bring young boys into a cave? How often is this done? > > I have the feeling that the boys will have things to say that will make the rescue a side note. Something smells off. I hope to hell I’m wrong. It’s Thailand, not the West, and things work differently. I’m sure that happens all the time. Unauthorized side trips. I seem to recall hearing this is not the first time the coach and team went into the cave. Things are a lot looser there. In many ways, it’s good. In many ways, it’s a recipe for disaster. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/69 "2018-07-05T11:15:28Z")
I assume they are thinking of this, but can they do it in stages? That is, get them to the next chamber and rest a while rather than get them all the way to the entrance in one shot. At least one place mentioned air hoses (not sure the correct term) rather than each kid with his own tank. I also assume ropes will be used so the kids can feel their way to the exit. I don’t think tunneling is off the table either. Brian ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/70 "2018-07-05T11:59:20Z")
From what I read, no options are being taken off the table as yet but no-one is considering this a done deal. Finding them alive was wonderful but it seems like there is nothing easy or certain about getting them out alive. Apparently heavy rains are coming in a few days and they don’t know whether that will flood it all completely. If that happens they’ll just have to dive them out ASAP and lord alone knows how that’ll proceed. So many things to go wrong, I can barely stand to imagine it. Even leaving them there for months may yield unknown horrors, illness and injury. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/71 "2018-07-05T12:31:30Z")
I feel sorry for the coach. A twenty-five year old is just a kid himself. I bet his mother is worried too. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/72 "2018-07-05T12:33:35Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > Is there a reason they don’t try to get to them from above? Danger of collapse for the roof, maybe? Maybe they could dig into a nearby area that would be safer. > > StG This is what they did for the [2010 Chilean mine rescue.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Copiap%C3%B3_mining_accident) But I suspect two key differences exist that made it possible back then and probably make it more difficult or impossible in the present case: - I suspect the Chilean mine tunnels were very accurately surveyed. The rescuers didn’t know at first which area the miners were in, but they knew where they were going to drill to, and were able to do so. OTOH, I’ll wager that the naturally-formed cave in Thailand is much less accurately surveyed. Even having located them in the cave, it may be difficult to figure out where that chamber is relative to the surface. -Rigs for drilling holes of adequate diameter and depth for a rescue are pretty unwieldy. Pictures and video from the Chilean mine rescue effort (like [this one](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-11493800)) show that the area where the drills were positioned was pretty developed, with graded roads that made transporting that equipment feasible. OTOH, renderings of the area around the cave in Thailand indicate that the cave is under a mountainous jungle. Even if the location of the chamber relative to the surface is well known, it may be logistically difficult/impossible to bring drilling equipment into the area. ---
**Author:** ![PoppaSan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/poppasan/32/189_2.png) [@PoppaSan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoppaSan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/73 "2018-07-05T13:58:16Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Filbert: here are some brief comments: > [Thailand cave: 'Zero risks' to be taken in rescue of boys](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44692813) > > Note on the map: > Some parts too narrow to wear scuba tanks. > 30 m dive > Full climbing gear needed How did the kids get to where they are without full climbing gear? The video shows them in shorts and jerseys and I’d assume some type of running shoes? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/74 "2018-07-05T15:07:39Z")
> [@PoppaSan](#): > > How did the kids get to where they are without full climbing gear? The video shows them in shorts and jerseys and I’d assume some type of running shoes? My assumption would be that when it’s dry, it’s a relatively easy rock climb. Is the diving task made any easier if the rescuers have established fixed lines? In other words, the kid (while wearing scuba gear) would not be swimming as such but rather would be tethered to a line and essentially dragged along through the water by a professional diver? That would not eliminate the harrowing moments where it would be necessary to remove the tank, but would the rest of the dive be simplified? ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/75 "2018-07-05T16:01:43Z")
There are already guide lines run through the cave. That is standard cave diving procedure. And typically little [markers are attached to the line](https://www.google.com/search?q=cave+diving+directional+markers+for+guideline&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS800US800&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjU3eaKqojcAhUGTawKHWBuC2gQ_AUICigB&biw=1018&bih=611) to help aid in navigation by touch so divers will know which way is out even in zero visibility. However the guide line may not be strong enough in places to have someone pull themselves along it. That runs the risk of placing the line in tension across a sharp bit of rock and cutting the line. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/76 "2018-07-05T16:20:19Z")
As the rushing water filled the cave system it carried mud and debris which quickly blocked up narrows. The easier walk they took in doesn’t really exist any more. They must have clamoured to squeak through any opening as the waters rose, seeking refuge, going further into the cave system. And much more rain is coming. Flooding could easily worsen, they are still very much in peril. Rescuers are pumping out tons of water, diverting streams etc. But they’re fighting Mother Nature during monsoon season. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/77 "2018-07-05T16:36:33Z")
Two of the boys and the coach are suffering exhaustion from malnutrition. They won’t be leaving for awhile. An alternate route may still be the best hope for rescue. > **[Thailand cave: Boys and coach not yet well enough to attempt escape | CNN](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/07/05/asia/thai-cave-rescue-intl/index.html)** > > A medical assessment of the 12 boys and their football coach stuck in a Thai cave has concluded that it is too dangerous to try to move the group out Thursday. > [@](#): > > The teams searching for another route through a natural chimney were dispatched following reports that the boys had told divers they heard dogs barking, a rooster crowing and children playing, possibly indicating a shaft leading up to the surface. > > “There has been reports that kids have heard sounds from chickens and birds,” Ben Reymenants, a Belgian who owns a diving shop in Thailand and has been assisting with the rescue efforts, told CNN. > > “Were those hallucinations or did they really hear it? Because that would mean there is livestock nearby or at least a forest which would make an alternative entrance possible.” > > Osottanakorn said that teams on the surface were no longer drilling into the rock to create new shafts, but are focusing efforts on finding existing chimneys. > > “We are no longer digging – we will find a way that can give us access (without digging) direct to the area where the boys are,” he said. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/78 "2018-07-05T17:17:04Z")
Sorry if this was mentioned and I didn’t see it, but do the coach and kids now have a constant source of artificial light in their refuge, or are they still in darkness for pretty much all 24 hours of the day? Seems this would be crucial for psychological health. Don’t know if the 2010 Chilean miners were given lamps and stuff by the rescuers to last them those weeks/months too/either. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/79 "2018-07-05T17:30:09Z")
Yes, they are stringing up lights for them. As they did in Chile, it’s important for their ability to sleep as well. The darkness, after their lamps died, is why they’d lost track of what day it was, I believe. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/80 "2018-07-05T17:45:06Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Sorry if this was mentioned and I didn’t see it, but do the coach and kids now have a constant source of artificial light in their refuge, or are they still in darkness for pretty much all 24 hours of the day? Seems this would be crucial for psychological health. > > Don’t know if the 2010 Chilean miners were given lamps and stuff by the rescuers to last them those weeks/months too/either. [According to this graphic,](https://i.imgur.com/hCquFbT.jpg) yes, the Chilean miners had artificial light sources lowered down to help regulate their circadian rhythm while the rescue proceeded. People who don’t get adequate light during the daytime and adequate darkness at night (this includes blind people, as well as anyone trapped underground for an extended period) can develop sleep disorders. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173.md?page=5)