# Missing Soccer Team Found Alive in Cave **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 2, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173 "2018-07-02T17:03:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/101 "2018-07-06T14:43:03Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > The map in **Quartz’s** BBC article indicates that there are several areas of flooding in the cave, which means there are spots in between where these kids would have to walk (or more likely, climb) with their diving gear. If you’ve never done SCUBA before, that shit is HEAVY and awkward. a SCUBA tank weighs about thirty pounds. If they’re wearing wetsuits (for warmth), then that will increase their buoyancy, which means they’ll need weight belts (otherwise they won’t be able to descend underwater), so add another 15-20 pounds. Why couldn’t the professional divers carry this stuff for the kids on these in-between areas? ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/102 "2018-07-06T14:56:45Z")
[This graphic](https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/590x/secondary/Thailand-cave-rescue-map-1409745.jpg?r=1530883563935) shows a simple cross section of the exit route that gives some idea of the extent of flooding. ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/103 "2018-07-06T15:17:21Z")
Elon Musk is jumping in with [suggestions](https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/07/elon-musk-has-an-idea-for-saving-boys-stranded-in-a-thailand-cave/). ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/104 "2018-07-06T15:39:47Z")
They are reportedly going to begin attempting rescue operations this evening, which I guess means now (it’s currently 10:40 pm local time). They plan to bring the kids out in groups of two. From a Belgian diver who has been assisting with operations: > [@](#): > > It remains a difficult course through a labyrinth of corridors, with lots of diving and climbing. > > But the process is along with the current and the visibility under water is already a lot better. > > Moreover, they do not have to swim a lot, they have an oxygen mask on them and they will almost always be kept on hand by one of the divers. > > In the third corridor there is air for breathing, where they will also be checked by a doctor. Then there is another 1.5 kilometers of climbing and climbing. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/105 "2018-07-06T16:36:29Z")
Here’s [the Guardian link](https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2018/jul/06/thailand-cave-rescue-looming-rain-clouds-could-force-quick-rescue-decision-live) to what TroutMan just posted. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/106 "2018-07-06T17:24:46Z")
> [@Hermitian](#): > > Elon Musk is jumping in with [suggestions](https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/07/elon-musk-has-an-idea-for-saving-boys-stranded-in-a-thailand-cave/). He’s got some good ideas. The nylon tube sounds promising. But the rains start again within a day or two. Time may have run out for any tech solution… They’re still trying hard to find alternate ways in. But, the clock is running down. > **[Thai soccer team: Rescuers scour thick jungle for access to cave | CNN](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/07/06/asia/thailand-cave-rescue-soccer-intl/index.html)** > > Snaking up a hillside along a steep jungle track, a convoy of trucks loaded with dozens of Thai rescue workers churns through mud on what’s become a daily mission to find an alternative route out of the Tham Luang cave. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/107 "2018-07-06T17:26:33Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Here’s [the Guardian link](https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2018/jul/06/thailand-cave-rescue-looming-rain-clouds-could-force-quick-rescue-decision-live) to what TroutMan just posted. And now the latest update is there will be no attempt “today”. ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/108 "2018-07-06T17:52:27Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > And now the latest update is there will be no attempt “today”. Sounds like decisions are being made hour by hour based on conditions. That is a scary position to be in. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/109 "2018-07-06T17:53:01Z")
It makes sense to wait as long as possible, so that they can do as much preparation as possible. Every day they can postpone the rescue attempt means a better chance of succeeding. When the rains come, they may be forced to make a rescue attempt immediately. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/110 "2018-07-06T17:57:44Z")
The problem is that a rescue can’t be immediate. They expect heavy rains Sunday, which is a day from now local time. [Another report](https://twitter.com/yayqe/status/1015264467075063808) said they have the capacity to bring out four boys per day. If that’s true, it’s a minimum of three days to rescue them all from the time they start. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/111 "2018-07-06T18:46:13Z")
I worry about the professional divers safety. I remember my lifeguard training. We were taught to avoid directly approaching a drowning victim. If possible, reach out with a pole or any suitable object. Even a beach towel gives you some distance. If you do have to approach, be prepared to fight them off. A panicked swimmer is very dangerous. They’ll try to climb on top of you to reach the surface. A lifeguard can easily drown in these situations. I got certified but decided against taking a job. Some of these kids are going panic during the rescue. The conditions are so claustrophobic that almost anybody will have troble staying calm. The professional divers will have their handsful escorting these kids out. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/112 "2018-07-06T19:24:17Z")
With the electric cables being put into the water, wonder if that runs an electrocution risk if something scrapes the insulation open or an open end is left sparking in the water? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/113 "2018-07-06T19:25:27Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > The renderings of the cave (and the fact that a one-way trip takes 5-6 hours) seem to suggest that the submerged parts are intermittent There’s a model of the caves showing the flooded parts in this video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=887IiOyBlag](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=887IiOyBlag) , at about 1’25" ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/114 "2018-07-06T19:34:29Z")
This whole thing is fraught with about 87 different dangers. Taking kids who can’t swim and have never SCUBA’d in their life through a narrow cave dive sounds like a recipe for disaster, but if the air is running out or the water level starts rising, I guess you try that Hail Mary play. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/115 "2018-07-06T19:38:25Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > With the electric cables being put into the water, wonder if that runs an electrocution risk if something scrapes the insulation open or an open end is left sparking in the water? Where did you hear they were running electric cables? I heard they were trying to pull an air hose and a fiber-optic cable for communications. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/116 "2018-07-06T19:42:19Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This whole thing is fraught with about 87 different dangers. Taking kids who can’t swim and have never SCUBA’d in their life through a narrow cave dive sounds like a recipe for disaster, but if the air is running out or the water level starts rising, I guess you try that Hail Mary play. Yes, that’s what’s really scary to me. There doesn’t seem to be any way this can succeed, but the alternative is just that dire. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/117 "2018-07-06T19:53:35Z")
If they can pump in enough oxygen and scrub enough CO2, maybe they could keep the kids there indefinitely at least as far as breathing air goes, but the flooding is still the danger. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/118 "2018-07-06T19:55:32Z")
A cave diver on the scene says they routinely dive and explore caves. He says this isn’t a cave they would dive. He’s been inside and is part of the rescue effort. Skip to 5:10. He’s very frank about the conditions in that cave. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/3g_-agsDW5o/maxresdefault.jpg "Virtual look at the caves trapping boys") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g_-agsDW5o) ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/119 "2018-07-06T19:56:05Z")
This is not meant to impugn anyone. Honest. To be in charge of the cave rescue means to constantly have to countenance that the decisions you make are highly likely to lead to the deaths of some children. That said: I wonder if there’s not some paralysis-by-analysis going on. Everything is being thought through, analyzed, researched, thought through again. That one “magical” safe solution that gets everyone out alive is actively being sought … but it could be sinking in that there is no such solution to be found. And does taking additional time to find such a solution put the kids in more danger than if they try throwing the Hail Mary now? Positively gut-wrenching. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/120 "2018-07-06T20:04:26Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > This is not meant to impugn anyone. Honest. To be in charge of the cave rescue means to constantly have to countenance that the decisions you make are highly likely to lead to the deaths of some children. > > That said: > > I wonder if there’s not some paralysis-by-analysis going on. Everything is being thought through, analyzed, researched, thought through again. That one “magical” safe solution that gets everyone out alive is actively being sought … but it could be sinking in that there is no such solution to be found. And does taking additional time to find such a solution put the kids in more danger than if they try throwing the Hail Mary now? > > Positively gut-wrenching. Yes, this is common in management or anywhere else. You pick Option A, you get blamed for all the deaths or consequences of Option A. Whereas those who propose Option B, C, and D get off scot-free, even though their plans are equally dangerous or risky, because their plans didn’t actually get put into action. The punishment of the actual vs. the hypothetical. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173.md?page=7)